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Offline SteveB

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NYS bowseason threat
« on: September 21, 2009, 06:41:00 PM »
Seems the NYB(NY Bowhunters) and the NYSMLA(NYS Muzzle Loader Association) have conspired to allow mz and a youth gun season to the last week of the Southern zone early bowseason. In return for losing 7 more days of prime rut we would get 2 weeks on the front end. Not accepetable to me and a far cry from NYB's stated policy to fight the inclusion of xbow, mz and gun in the early season.
 
Details below:

NY Bow season- purposed changes

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IMMEDIATE RELEASE

State Bowhunter and Muzzleloader Associations Compile Joint Southern Zone Deer Season Proposal

Canandaigua, NY - 9/18/09 - New York Bowhunters, Inc. (NYB) and the New York State Muzzleloader Association (NYSMLA) have been working jointly for several months on a southern zone deer season proposal that allows both parties to meet their objectives. Copies of the proposal have been sent to the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation, Bureau of Wildlife (DEC) and other Sportsmen’s organization throughout New York State.

The DEC desires to increase the harvest of antlerless deer in their effort to effectively manage the whitetail deer herd as well as allow for a weekend of early hunting opportunity for junior big game firearms hunters. The NYSMLA wishes to have an early “primitive” muzzleloading season and NYB seeks to restore lost hunting opportunity that occurred with the implementation of the 2005 big game restructuring regulations. Therefore, both organizations reached out to one another to work on a sensible proposal that would be acceptable to firearms hunters, muzzleloader hunters, bowhunters, the DEC and to the general public. The timing of the proposal coincides with the DEC’s scheduling of public meetings this September and October regarding the state of the deer herds in New York.

The DEC recently scheduled public meetings in an effort to “capture the issues that are important to sportsmen, particularly as they relate to bag limits, season structure and tag options. We (DEC) hope to receive feedback from meeting participants that helps us (DEC) prioritize the issues that are important for NYS deer hunters and the public” stated DEC Wildlife Biologist Jeremy Hurst. Information on these meetings can be found by going to the DEC website at  http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/57795.html.  

The NYB/NYSMLA joint proposal would restructure the southern zone hunting seasons as follows;

· open the 23-day regular firearms season on the Saturday before Thanksgiving.

· open the early archery season on October 1st, ending on the Friday prior to the beginning of the regular firearms season.

· Allow for a weekend of junior (ages 14 & 15) big game hunting opportunity on the weekend prior to the opening of the regular firearms season.

· open a 5-day antlerless-only “primitive” muzzleloading season on the Monday prior to the beginning of the regular firearms season, ending on the Friday prior to the beginning of the regular firearms season.

NYB President, Gary Socola stated, “The DEC follows a progression of weaponry in the northern zone, starting with archery season, muzzleloader season and then progressing into the regular firearms season. The NYB/MYSMLA proposal follows the precedence already set by the DEC.” Socola indicated that he has records over the past two years showing that bowhunters have sent over 8,000 letters and signatures on petitions to DEC Commissioner Pete Grannis asking that the DEC open the early southern zone archery season on October 1st. “I’ve heard people complain that bowhunters are greedy and that they kill all of the bucks prior to the firearms season”. Not true says Socola, “Statistically bowhunters take a very small percentage of bucks when compared to the regular firearms season take. In my 31 years of bowhunting experience, I have never met a more sharing and caring group of hunters.” If we want to “harvest more antlerless deer and expose new hunters to the outdoors, why are we taking early season bowhunting time away from archers and at the same time increasing their license and permit fees, asked Socola?”

New York States 2009 southern zone early archery season is the latest opening date in the Northeast states Socola, “let’s get our youth, seniors, persons of disability and all hunters out earlier in the season so that they can enjoy our natural resources in better weather while helping the DEC control our expanding deer herd.” The states of Connecticut, Delaware, Maryland, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Ohio, and Virginia all have early archery season opening dates in September. Maine opens up on October 1st in most areas, Pennsylvania and Vermont open on October 3rd and Massachusetts on October 12th. Having an archery season opening date on a Saturday is not as critical for bowhunters as it is for firearms hunters. An October 1 opening date is an easily recognizable date and also coincides with the DEC’s licensing year.

Socola added, ”Let’s not forget that the economic impact of hunters being afield for additional hunting days would add a huge influx of funds into the states sagging economy. More time afield has a direct correlation to monies spent.” According to a US Fish and Wildlife Service 2006 National Survey of Hunting, Fishing and Wildlife, New York’s 1.2 million hunters and anglers spent $5 million a day for a total of $1.8 billion. Annual spending by New York’s sportsmen is equal to the combined cash receipts for dairy products and apples, two of the top agricultural commodities in the state ($1.8 billion).

NYSMLA President, Bill Brookover (Black Powder Bill) is excited about the possibilities this proposal offers. “The NYSMLA has tried for over 10 years to get a primitive muzzleloader season in the southern zone. This proposal will allow us to do that and also allows provisions for the youth and for bowhunters. Bowhunters and muzzleloader hunters are not at odds with one another in New York State. This is not a hunter issue but a season issue created by the DEC’s current season structuring. By working together, our organizations are showing sportsmen throughout New York State that we can put aside any differences and work together towards our common goals.”

Pennsylvania (PA) has had an early muzzleloader season since 2000. The PA early muzzleloader season regulation states “Those wishing to hunt deer during the flintlock muzzleloading and muzzleloading seasons are limited to single-barrel long guns manufactured prior to 1800 or a similar reproduction.” PA also offers a special firearms season for junior and senior hunter. “Brookover states “Our joint proposal will allow the youth and seniors a chance to hunt in better weather. With the NYSMLA/ NYB proposal, kids can strike out after school for a late afternoon bow hunt because of the later sunset time. The antler-less primitive week will give families a chance to work together as a team instead of dropping Papa, Sally Mae & Jr. off at tree stands 200 yards apart. You’ll not see a dozen hunters driving deer through a block of woods either.”

The straightforward proposal will allow increased hours a field during warmer weather with a sunset later in the day and provide a regular firearms season pre-Thanksgiving weekend opener. What better week to start the regular season? Many hunters are off the following Thursday & Friday and can take off the whole week using only three additional vacation days. Brookover added, “Our proposal will provide more and often more agreeable - deer hunting opportunities for families, kids, seniors, persons with physical disabilities and just about every hunter across the board.”

New York Bowhunters, Inc. was formed in 1991 to promote bowhunting, educate hunters and non-hunters, and to fight anti-hunting legislation. NYB annually runs youth archery camps, a physically challenged program and supports special projects such as the “Gift Boxes for Troops” and helped establish an archery range for troops serving in Iraq.

The New York State Muzzle-loaders Association was born from the Tryon County Militia in 1977 and is "dedicated to the continuing support of black powder events, people, and legislation." The NYSMLA has over 40 affiliated clubs throughout New York State. The NYSMLA has 6 major events in 2009. The first event was the "Primitive Snowshoe Biathlon” held in March and the last will be the 18th annual "Primitive Rendezvous & Hunt." The Rendezvous will be held just outside Inlet, NY at the Moose River Plains wilderness area October 9th - 16th with Visitors day Sunday October 11th 10:00am till 5:00 pm.

NYB can be contacted by phone at 585-905-0961 or by email at [email protected] or check out their website at  http://www.newyorkbowhunters.com/.  For information about the NYSMLA contact them at NYSMLA Inc., 200 Clifford Drive, Vestal, NY 13850 or by email at [email protected] or 315-524-3457 or by checking out their website at  http://www.nysmla.org/.  

- END -

Online Al Dente

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Re: NYS bowseason threat
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2009, 07:45:00 PM »
My name is Al Bottari, and I am the 2nd Vice President of New York Bowhunters, Inc.  I will not get into any sort of bashing, only giving the facts of the matter at hand.

The "last" week of early archery season was TAKEN away by the DEC four years ago, to make way for the Regular (Firearms) Season Opener.  ALL of the bowhunters of NYS were supposed to have gotten the October 1st Opener to compensate for the lost weekend hunting oppotrunity in November.  The DEC renegged on their committment, and ALL of the bowhunters were to lose up to 10 days of bowhunting, depending on the calendar year.  A loss of 10 hunting days results in a reduction of 26% of hunting time.  No other hunting group in NYS has lost time, except for the bowhunters.  Muzzleloaders and Firearms hunters have a fixed amount of days per calendar year, bowhunters do not.

The proposal is an attempt by two sporting groups to work together for a common goal, as the DEC has been unresponsive to the needs both sporting groups.  It will take the week that was taken away by the DEC in 2005 for their new season cycle and replace it with an early, 5 weekday, antlerless, primitive muzzleloader season, followed by a youth firearms weekend.  Additionally, it will give the bowhunters of NYS back time lost from 2005, in the form of an earlier archery season, in better weather conditions.  The early season will also allow for better participation from the younth, the female sportpersons, and the physically challenged.  This is a win-win proposal for everyone, and unites two groups who have more in common than the DEC would like to think.
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Offline SteveB

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Re: NYS bowseason threat
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2009, 08:16:00 PM »
Couple direct quotes from the NYB's website on why you should be a member:

1. As a Southern Zone Bowhunter, you don't have the intrusion of muzzleloaders, crossbows or other firearms during the archery-only season. Why, because of NYB.

2. Whether you hunt private land, public land or even archery-only areas. If the Archery Season is shortened, taken away, or becomes usurped with other weapons, it affects you too. NYB defends bow seasons.

Regardles of how explained, this proposal is in direct conflict with the mission statements. Having gun hunters afield during the prime week of bow season is begging for an accident. More days do not come close to better days - I am not willing to trade the best week of our season for a few more days on the front end.

And I am far from alone. Virtually ever bowhunter that has heard of this proposal that I am aware off - offline and on - shares the same opinion. Its a step toward one season any weapon.

The NYSDEC website lists a series of upcoming meetings across the state concerning the hunting seasons. I strongly urge all who care to attend and be heard.

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Re: NYS bowseason threat
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2009, 09:55:00 AM »
I'm a life member of NYB--it's the only game in town-- but I do not support the early muzzleloader season. I don't want to be in the woods with the guns, and I think they will make our season tougher as the deer get "educated" pretty quickly by the sound of gunfire. Nor do I think an October 1st opener is anything to be excited about. As a "Female sportperson" I can say that I don't care about being in my treestand when it's 80 degrees, nor do I need the warmer weather to be comfortable. Fact is, it's often too warm for deer movement that early in the month. If we are in a position to demand anything (and we might not be) it should be to get back the rut time in November that we lost to the regular firearms season. Also, the other tricky issue on the horizon is going to be the inclusion of the crossbow in the archery season. Keep your eyes wide open on that one!

Offline Tdog

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Re: NYS bowseason threat
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2009, 10:48:00 AM »
Yeah I think this is a bad idea. I really beleave this is just asking for trouble. NYS need to look at the Muzzleloader regs. These gun are not PRIMITIVE anymore. They should just stay in reg rifle season. If it isn't broke don't try to fix it. Just leave well enough alone. I really beleave the state should go to bow only. That would be the safest way to go..

Offline Brian Krebs

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Re: NYS bowseason threat
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2009, 07:51:00 PM »
point of fact is that convicted felons can no longer own muzzleloaders- because of the many 'advancements'- in many areas- and that might even be a federal law now.

 I can see the same happening with the in the works electronic automatic crossbows.... I just hope the lumping of crossbows when that day comes --- does not take down all bows with them......

 We are not all of the same ideology. Sticking together as if we are is not going to work to our advantage.
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Offline grouseshooter002

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Re: NYS bowseason threat
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2009, 09:18:00 AM »
Has anyone given any thought to the fact that there are some of us that still love to run our dogs and hunt grouse or other small game? Where do we fit in? Thanks and this is only my thought.

Rick

Offline Brian Krebs

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Re: NYS bowseason threat
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2009, 10:49:00 PM »
I think a lot of us separate big game from small game. I take a lot of small game with a bow; but - hey I raise German Wirehairs; and I hunt with a shotgun for chuckars and huns.
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Offline adkarcher

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Re: NYS bowseason threat
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2010, 08:25:00 PM »
There could potentially be some conflicts with small game hunters no doubt, just like today.  In 17 years of bowhunting, I have yet to run into a small game hunter, both private and state land.

When the 10/1 opener was presented to the NYSCC, there was not one comment from the small game committee regarding conflicts between bowhunters and small game hunters and they supported the proposal.  I found this very interesting.  I would have expected opposition if there really was this concern.

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Offline Shawn Leonard

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Re: NYS bowseason threat
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2010, 10:37:00 PM »
Sorry Al, this is a lousy idea and whoever thought it up is not acting in the bowhunters best interest!! I don't care if it a  doe only season, once guns start going off it changes everything. Here in NY that Oct. 1st. opener is lousy, too hot and deer are in a lull than. I know my wife and kids would rather hunt a few days in the rut than that terrible early season. Deer sightings, ecsp. bucks increases big time during the rut and that is what new hunters want is sightings not sitting sweating and swatting bugs. I beleive New Yorks bowhunters do not want this but your organization does! Do everyone a favor and don't do us any favors. Hair brained idea if I ever heard of one. Shawn
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Offline Shawn Leonard

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Re: NYS bowseason threat
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2010, 10:46:00 PM »
I just read more, Al are you kidding. I know some physically challenged hunters and guess what they sweatlike pigs trying to get to and from stands and such. I promise you none of them would want this. We do not have anything in common with the muzzleloader(I hunt with one)except we both hunt. I can shoot 250 to 300 yards with my muzzleloader, very accuratley. If ya do this why not let shotgunners do it, they are way less effective at killing deer than todays modern in-lines. That is just plain BS and to make statements like we have more in common with them than DEC thinks is just plain stupid!! Sorry for the rant but true!! Please again don't push for this because it is flat out stupid!! Shawn
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Offline Shawn Leonard

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Re: NYS bowseason threat
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2010, 10:52:00 PM »
Keep the two weeks, man I am frosted over this!! Does anybody that belongs to NYB actually kill deer? I mean if any of them believes those early two weeks are better hunting than the days during the time the muzzleloaders will be in the woods they have lost their minds!! Shawn
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Offline Guru

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Re: NYS bowseason threat
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2010, 06:01:00 AM »
I'm afraid I agree with everything Shawn said, it's plain non-sense!!!
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Offline huntindad

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Re: NYS bowseason threat
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2010, 01:50:00 PM »
I know very little about whitetail hunting but I hunt blacktails in CA and an Oct. 1ST opener SUCKS!!

  Our archery opener where I hunt is usually around Aug. 16-24 and lasts until the second Sat. in Sept..The firearms season is the third Sat. in Sept.through the second Sat. in Oct. the middle of this season is the least active for deer as it is pre-rut and the deer all seem dormant during the daylight hours though the end of the season .


  Sorry for the long post but I guess my point is  I don't think any favors have been done with the addition of this season.Bill
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Offline larry

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Re: NYS bowseason threat
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2010, 02:05:00 PM »
I'm a member of NYB's and I have to agree, this is a bad idea. It may look nice on paper, but in the real world of hunting it's a bad bad idea.

Offline grouseshooter002

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Re: NYS bowseason threat
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2010, 06:52:00 PM »
Shawn,
     I side with you on this issue and I had been thinking of joining NYB but now will refrain. I agree that the only thing I have in common with gun hunters of any sort is the fact that we "hunt".

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Offline bog monster

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Re: NYS bowseason threat
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2010, 02:27:00 PM »
I think we could be over reacting a little on this one. I don't believe we are "losing" a week of the rut. We will have to share it, but most Southern zone muzzleloader hunters I know are also bowhunters and I don't think they will be missing a week of the rut to hunt does with a muzzleloader. I already share the woods with small game hunters (which I see alot of) and I still seem to fill the freezer.
   I really can't believe everyone is in such an uproar about more hunting time. It may not be the best time, but it is far better than shortening the season or allowing crossbows in archery only season. I really would like to hear from some of the Northern Zone guys who have been bowhunting at the same time as blackpowder hunters for a while.
   I would love see a true primitive weapons early season, but I know it will probably never happen. As a traditional bowhunter I feel I have alot more in common with some traditional blackpowder hunters than I do wiht most compound shooters. For better or worse, if they say I can go bowhunting Oct.1 instead of Oct. 16 I'll take it.

Offline SteveB

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Re: NYS bowseason threat
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2010, 02:34:00 PM »
I don't feel I am over reacting even a bit. Actually the opposite, if anything.
 
The reason the nz has different regulations is that the hunting is different in pressure, harvest and tradition. Very little if anything to be had by comparing the 2 - other then many nz bowhunters would like the same days as the sz for bow.

JMO
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Offline adkarcher

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Re: NYS bowseason threat
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2010, 06:45:00 PM »
I am a NZ guy and actually hunt the SZ very little.  And when I do hunt the SZ, it is in the Salisbury area, which is just like NZ hunting.  Compared to probably where the masses hunt in the SZ, I agree with Steve, it is probably a different game -  I do not hunt those type areas, but assume it might be different.  

I do not have any issues up here with MZ guys, but I also have 2 bow only spots that I can go to, so I am not affected.  However, when I muzzleload hunt on state land (and I do every year), I rarely see a primitive muzzeloader.  They are all in-lines.

This proposal is for primitive muzzleloaders only, meaning flintlock or cap and ball.  No in-lines.

Having met with the DEC several times since they last tried to introduce muzzleloaders in the middle of bow season and also wanted a youth weekend in the middle of bow season, they still want these seasons.  Do not think for a second they have strayed from their original intentions.  The shotgun season will not be moved back to accommodate these seasons.  I have been laughed at when I brought this up.  There is only the archery season left.  Just something to think about as everything needs to fit in somewhere.  Middle of the season as the DEC wanted before or at the end.

Also, bowhunters have already lost that last week of the rut 40% of the time.  Think back to last year with the 28 day season.  It occurs again in 2013 and 2014 I think.

I am not here to persuade anyone one way or the other, but just some crucial info that I think needs to be out there.

Sorry for the long post.

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Offline ghost rob

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Re: NYS bowseason threat
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2010, 10:08:00 AM »
I let my membership in NYB go instead of renewing it. I totally disagree with these proposals for several reasons. As much as I'd like to see kids get involved I know for a fact that many guys get their kids to get a lisence so that they (the adult)  can get an extra turkey in the spring youth turkey season. I see the same thing with this big game youth proposal. I don't care what anyone says but all things become corrupt. I also don't want guns out there when I'm bowhunting for many reasons, tough enuff to get a deer in Broome County in bowseason as it is. For every deer that's taken legally I'd almost guarantee there's at least one taken illegally. I think it just open's the door for more corruption. You know if a guy has a nice buck come in when he's hunting does during this muzzleloading season he'll shoot it and tag it with an archery tag.I think this totally sucks!!!

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