How to stop access closures

[Zradix]

The national forests in my area of michigan have been a hunting spot for decades. The forestry service was sued by some group because they were not making enough land "NO motorized vehicles allowed" and things were being "ruined" by driving down decades old 2 tracks. Now ALL the roads inside the areas are being fenced or blocked off from vehicles. Sure we can still walk in it, but this is a 100,000+ acre area that now without hiking for days you can't get into the middle of it.  They are being a little sneaky about it so it just sort of gradualy happens. Closing 1-3 roads a year. Does anybody know how to stop this from happening??

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Not to P.O. anyone, but I would think that's a good thing. The reason I say that is No 4wheelers driving up as Your hunting, No kids 4wheeling at mach 3 down the roads. I'm sorry I like the State Forest to be with out motos, That's just me.

[Zradix]

off road vehicles are not allowed in these areas. only plated cars and trucks. This area has been great for many and used for camping by many. There is a nice trout river you can get to also. After they close the road you'll have to walk appx 4 miles to get to the river.

[Zradix]

mysticguido,
 How do you get to your hunting spot? Do you drive and park somewhere near( mile or less from your stand) or do hike in a few miles?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by Zradix:
mysticguido,
 How do you get to you're hunting spot? Do you drive and park somewhere near( mile or less from your stand) or do hike in a few miles?

I haven't done the mile hike in years. Like I said I don't mean to P.O. anyone just stating My feelings. I under stand what You are saying, Isn't it better to have to walk miles then not being able to hunt there at all?

[Pack]

I completely agree with mysticguido on this one.  The less access, the better.  I live on the edge of 1 million acres of public land that have been severely compromised by 4wheeler access.  I can't believe the number of Forest Service gates that have 4wheeler trails going around them.  4wheelers have become the scurge of our National Forests.

[3blades]

I kinda like trails much better then roads myself and have to agree that 4wheelers are doing lots of harm and not a lot of good. Just walk is my liking too. I tend to think that less roads will equal better hunting and a better enjoyment of it.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by Zradix:
The national forests in my area of Michigan have been a hunting spot for decades. The forestry service was sued by some group because they were not making enough land "NO motorized vehicles allowed" and things were being "ruined" by driving down decades old 2 tracks. Now ALL the roads inside the areas are being fenced or blocked off from vehicles. Sure we can still walk in it, but this is a 100,000+ acre area that now without hiking for days you can't get into the middle of it.  They are being a little sneaky about it so it just sort of gradually happens. Closing 1-3 roads a year. Does anybody know how to stop this from happening??

It is easier to close roads then to open them.I'm sorry to say that but it is so very true.

[Ray Hammond]

Zradix,

its a funny thing, but when people can drive all over a place- you get a ton of folks and they all hunt 50 feet off the road.

I would think you would welcome the "less crowded" atmosphere...as a "doing it the hard way" kind of guy yourself.

The fishing will get better, the fish will get larger, the deer will live longer...and you'll have a paradise all to yourself because the road hunters will have to find someplace else to hunt.

On my property in SC we do not allow people to drive anywhere. They walk from camp, or I take them out in one vehicle but still drop them off quite a way from where they will end up hunting.

Less vehicle traffic equals game that's a lot less SPOOKY.

[Zradix]

I agree with the 4 wheeler stuff. It's illegal here to use them except in special areas that are far and few between. The 4 wheelers just aren't a problem around here. We are lucky that way. It just gets me... The national forests are there to be used by the people. The most common 2 uses by far is to camp and to hunt. Most of the people camping use trailers or RV's. Some people use a tent. The thing is they all DROVE there to use the land. Now the land won't be used near as much. It just seems  wrong to me to tell the public sorry.. even though we haven't had any problems from you, we're not going to let you use the land the way you've used it for generations. Even though the whole reason for setting the land aside in the first place was so people and animals had a place to go! Then again having to pay $$$$$ for a hunting tag when most of the money doesn't go to the areas used seems wrong too. Makes me feel like I'm paying for the privelage to hunt the king's deer even though the king doesn't own them!....arrrggghhh !!!    

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by Zradix:
Most of the people camping use trailers or RV's. Some people use a tent. The thing is they all DROVE there to use the land.

But think of it this way. Where do you think some of those campers are dumping their black water? Is their RV leaking anything that can hurt the land? Now I'm all for a nice drive in the woods, I done it where I used to live in Jersey. But some just think I pay so I can do what I want to. You can try and fight this but it will be long and hard fight and You are more likely to lose.. Just deal with it and think about getting a bike and peddle in to your spot.

[Uncle Buck]

Zradix- are you talking about the area just north of lupton? we were mad when they closed it off because it was never that  popular with 4 wheelers anyway- we played cat and mouse with them for a while because they did not close some of the older 2 tracks. but eventually they closed them all- they had a huge area clearcut around 1979-80 and from the mid 80s to the mid 90s it was a deer factory in the poplar jungle that grew up. I suspect it had more to do with forcing hunters to pay for camping at the state park in lupton than it did with the environment. by ways it was only a short drive from Fred Bears famous Grousehaven camp

[Old York]

Without icing on the cake -

Get rid of the $#@!^&*^%$! ATV's and the access closures  might  stop. These infernal machines were let loose in our state forests some years ago, and now thank God, there's a backlash. It will take decades for nature to heal the track ruts & erosion.

Nothing infuriates me more than to listen to the constant, distant roar-roar-roar on evening-stand. Are there no quiet places left? What the hell did hunters(?) do before the advent of ATV's? Oh my gosh, did they  hike ?

[Tsalagi]

Gotta say it. Where I live, we have a lot of old logging roads in the forest. And used to be, you could actually pass by on some of them in a truck or jeep. But now you can't hardly do it on some roads. Not because of road closures, but because of ATVs. They'd get out there and do "roosters" in every standing puddle of water after a rain until the road was one big, muddy swamp. Then guess what happens? People go around the big mud bog and then you have this giant mud bog with circles of tire tracks around both sides where people went around. Then there's the idiots who go off even the logging roads, tear up the woods, do "roosters", and so on. It's pathetic. It makes you sick to see it.

The thing is, there is an ORV park just a few miles outside of town here where you can play on ATVs to your heart's content. Instead, these vandals destroy the forest. Every time I see one of the "Mother Ships" (these big bus-sized RVs with TVs, satellite dishes, and waterbeds for those folks "roughing it")towing a trailer full of ATVs up here from the city, I can tell that somewhere, the woods will take another hit.

Wife and I were out gathering mushrooms last year. Guy on an ATV with a compound bow is going up and down the old logging road. Up and down, up and down. He stops and asks if we've seen any deer. I say, "You must be new to this kinda thing or maybe you ain't from around here. Any deer that were here were long gone by the time they heard that ATV. You know, these deer are kinda afraid of funny noise like motors and such. You might try parking that and sitting a spell." He didn't like hearing that, but what am I supposed to say?

There's a lot of folks in this town who see these ATVs with rifle scabbards come up behind the "Mother Ships" in deer and elk season and people are like, what, these guys can't walk or something? It's kind of a black eye for hunting, in its own way. People see the damage done to the forest and they start lobbying to close the roads altogether. Because if someone proposes just closing the roads to ATV and dirt bike traffic, then the riders of those ATVs start whining about that not being fair. Well, then stop doing "roosters" in every mud puddle, guys!

Coming down off a gravel road, had one of them flip me the bird because I wasn't going the unsafe speed he was and he couldn't pass until about 1/2 mile. I don't have any love for the ATV or their riders.

I would like to know, if the forest service closes the roads are they also changing their management practices on that same area?  I like old growth, I like the mix of small openings and huge trees that eventually develops. When the woods are nothing more than a congestion of post sized trees and sticks that are too thick to walk through it is not so much fun to hunt the big woods. Would you be allowed to ride a mountain bike down these same roads?  My bike really gives me some distance that I would not have otherwise.

[Uncle Buck]

in the National forest I believe you are allowed bikes or horses in the closed off areas

[huntindad]

I think we should be guarded about closures I live in extreme northern CA and hunt in many western states with my family and that includes my 4 year old son this is steep and rough country and a little too much to ask of my two youngest to hike far into these areas.Now I don't have or want an ATV so I will not defend them. The region I live in has seen many land closures in recent years and I can honestly say it sucks, the land i not used by anyone for anything just closed to access and to hunting. Now I know that is not what the original post is speaking of but it starts small and then moves to worse things.Strict rules about road use and stiff enforcement some closures of spur roads leaving major access routes open is a much better plan.I have seen the damage that some speak of by ATV travel but have seen alot of damage by trucks also.I think if we just close these areas we eliminate many options for people who need the access option these areas provide.Even in Rays post encouraging closure you can find one reason access does not mean poor hunting and that is that everyone is within 50 feet of the road.Granted I live and hunt out west and there are plenty of wildernesses if that is the experience you crave so it is good to have options.Sorry for the long post and if I have offended anyone.Bill

[Brian Krebs]

This is not about Bill.

Where I live; Idaho: there is a lot of wilderness land. However; these areas have emergency air strips; and pilots are encouraged to land at them so they are familiar with landing- on these remote strips.
 However; the strips are used to take back in tourists and hunters- for a great cost: in the reality of the vast majority of people.
 That leaves OUT the average Joe or Josephine.
I have been flown back into numerous of these strips while working. The outfitters there do their best to deter the average person from passing through the leased land they are on.
 They down trees across trails; put up signs saying the areas are private; and circle water holes so that if you are on horseback you cannot get your horse to water.
 The back country called wilderness is the playground of the rich. Yes - anyone can walk back in; and if you can afford horses you can ride back in.
 While virtually everyone can walk; few people can afford horses; and the trailers and trucks needed to get to the wilderness spots.
 Meanwhile the rich fly in. They hire the outfitters; they have the 'playing field'.
 
 So- while the excuse for some- is that there is ample wilderness for all. Then that it is an excuse: for them to abuse road-less areas (by driving in them anyway).
 There are those that believe that those that violate the road-less rules in non wilderness areas are not really a problem; because there is so much wilderness.

 Well I don't agree with that thinking.

We need road closures; and mostly: we need the current rules enforced.
 Because that is NOT being done. Signs are torn down; atv's go where ever they want; as signs saying 'road ends' morphs into 'fun begins' ( as in the TV ad for ATV's) - and there is nothing to stop them.

 I would ask that you contact your representatives and ask that points be assigned to drivers licenses for those that ~are~ caught.

 If areas now closed can be kept closed; then perhaps new areas will not be violated.

 I live where you can still see the ruts of wagons from the wagon trains headed to California. The trails of ATVs will stay just as long; and leave only a legacy of disrespect and wanton disregard of rules; and laws; and common sense.

 You want to keep more road open? Make sure the ones that are closed now are kept closed. If you go through a gate on private land; close it behind you.

  Disregard for the rights of land owners; and for public land can only lead to more closures.

[huntindad]

I couldn't agree more with you Brian!My point even though I might not have expressed it properly is not to say open all of the closed roads or don't close more or even do not create more wilderness in areas that warrant it.My point was in some areas of this country there is very little public land and many people who want to use it. If it is just closed to fit your wants or my wants or the wants of that guy over there then the average joe or josephine of whom you speak will lose out because unfortunately (and I know this because I have hunted all over the west) joe has a 4wheeler and josephine is looking for a good deal on one.Now I have not been east of Colorado but from what I understand there is not much public land out there and although if I lived there I would welcome less access to improve my experience the "majority" would not and I do not think that that alone makes them "less" than me in any way.Closures against what the majority want is what I don't like to see because where I live that has meant more than no access it has meant no hunting.Strict punishment for disregard of the rules is what is needed so I agree with you Brian  on all points including it is not about Bill.Bill

[Brian Krebs]