how do you feel about earn a buck?

[Buckeye Trad Hunter]

I've been putting this question off for a while, but I'm curious as to how everyone feels about the earn a buck system.  Even if you don't want to vote I would like for you to post your thoughts.

[Buckeye Trad Hunter]

I would like to hear the reasoning behind your thoughts on this as well.

[gregk]

Could you explain what it is, im not sure i have ever heard of it.

[hunterace]

i voted it's a joke. i'm not totally closed minded on controlling the herd but asking a hunter to pass on a good buck is stupid, and asking that same hunter to shoot any anterless deer just to have the right is stupid. i have seen so many baby deer shot so those hunters could just have the chance to shoot a buck. most hunters weren't waiting for an older or bigger doe, just the first antlerless deer.
and now because of Eab, and all the extra antlerless tags given out in WI, now many areas have decimated the herd numbers. i hope that we can find better solutions to herd control and not just eliminate the population because the insurance companies keep lining the pockets of our gov. officials

[adeeden]

Originally posted by gregk:
Could you explain what it is, im not sure i have ever heard of it.

typicaly earn-a-buck is where you have to shoot a doe before you can shoot a buck!

I didn't vote but I am not a fan of earn a buck, and the only no option didn't seem quite right either!

[Mojostick]

The thing to keep in mind is, deer management is really deer hunter management. Changing tags, seasons, etc, is done mainly to either get more guys in the woods and to kill more or less of a certain sex of animal.
There is no such thing as deer management of a huge wild herd without hunter "trigger" management. Trigger management is deer management of large state herds.

I think EAB is a tool for area's where necessary.
However, it sounds like Wisconsin is having compliance/enforcement issue's, where a guy at camp kills a doe and everyone uses the same doe to check in.
I wonder if "earn a 2nd buck tag" in states like WI, MI and IL where multiple buck tags are offered might be a better system in real world practice?

Frankly, instead of earn a buck in 2 buck states, it seems that going to a one buck only rule, all year, like OH, IN and KY has, increases antlerless harvest, since hunters aren't passing as many females and holding out for bucks, since they have 2 buck tags. While one buck rule is popular with some and unpopular with others, I'd personally love to see a one buck rule in heavily pressured states like Michigan. We have 300,000 bow hunters, most with compounds and xbows, and around 700,000 firearms hunters, half with centerfire rifles.
With probably the worst buck to doe ratio in the country, the highest amount of yearling bucks being part of the harvest every year, around 65% yearling bucks, and herd problems with TB and CWD, allowing guys to kill 2 bucks with all that going on really is poor hunter managemant, in my opinion. With such intense hunting pressure and so few antlered bucks per hunter, it would seem one buck per hunter should be enough.
I believe that when IN went from 2 bucks to one buck, the buck harvest stayed about the same, but antlerless harvest went up around 10%. That seems like possibly a better avenue.

However, now states in big financial trouble, which is pretty much all of them, won't want to give up the license revenue from 2 buck tags and no state legislator is going to vote yes on a license fee increase if going from 2 buck tags to one, with the economy. So it's a catch 22.

[mwmwmb]

I didnt vote. but, I think it should be used in certain areas but only in gun seasons. I feel that with a bow. if they are in trad bow range we have EARNED a shot at that deer.

[pitbull]

I'm not a fan because there have been some years when my first deer of the year has been a nice buck because it was my first opportunity of the season. However I have taken several does after taking a buck each of those seasons.

[LKH]

It is often a result of our failing to do our part in the hunting equation: Kill enough does.

I've listened to lots of guys puff up their chests and announce that they don't kill does.  They will however shoot a little buck in an area overrun with does.  

As a landowner I suffer from too many deer, the vast majority of them does with a few immature bucks.  I've spent a lot of money putting electric fence around tree plantings because of the deer.  

It's been surprisingly successful at getting deer herds in balance where it is used.  

I favor it where needed.

[Jeff Strubberg]

IMHO, earn a buck is the most effective, most valid method to force hunters to reduce deer numbers.  You can argue whether or not deer number should go down in your area, but there is simply no argument against the effectiveness of earn a buck programs.

Buck/doe ratios get out of whack for one reason.  Management professionals and hunters together don't kill enough female deer.  Earn a buck addresses the problem rather than treating symptoms the way liberalized permits or point systems do.

[Tsalagi]

We don't have earn-a-buck in my state. But I'll say this. If someone offered me a doe tag, I'd snap it out of their hand so fast, I'd be like Grasshopper finally snatching the pea out of Master Po's hand! I want the meat.

[blktail]

mwmwmb, my feelings exactly!

[Billy]

If we as Trad hunters were allowed "special privileges" the gunners, x-bow folks and all the rest would whine and some beauracrat would "solve" the problem.

EAB programs are tools used to make the public feel better. The programs are not meant to manage deer but control people, revenue, and perceptions. I don't like them.

The 'tools' in the green, liberal, human-hating
'I know better' crowd are the problem.

That said, hunters are the truest form of conservators of the resource. If, we don't stand up and get into the conversation at the policy levels, then what 'they' hand out is what 'we' deserve!

Anybody that knows me knows that my belief goes: It's a great topic, and it should be dicussed...BUT....What will YOU do to change it??
What will you DO to make it better?

One buck-IMHO- here in Indiana is working.

[mwmwmb]

Billy,
while I agree with some of what your saying. I realize that we will never get speacial privileges, which is probably why i am against them overall.

But it is not just the
"'tools' in the green, liberal, human-hating
'I know better' crowd are the problem." I dont know about IN but we just dont have a big problem with Anti's in AR. it is a small state and most everyone either hunts, has hunted, or has close relatives that hunt.

It is also the other side described well by LKH as " guys puff up their chests and announce that they don't kill does. They will however shoot a little buck in an area overrun with does." That are also the problem in many areas.

a prime example of this is the area i hunted some this year. it is all old school thinking folks that think killing does is bad for the heard and shoot 1.5yr old 6pts. I cant tell you how many does i saw all year >50. I saw one legal buck. In our part of the state we can kill 4 does but most dont kill any. they fill there 2 buck tags and go home.

AS Jeff said.
"Buck/doe ratios get out of whack for one reason. Management professionals and hunters together don't kill enough female deer. Earn a buck addresses the problem rather than treating symptoms the way liberalized permits or point systems do."

[ChuckC]

Earn a buck does not mandate you kill a doe first, but rather an antlerless deer.  Any antlerless deer.  

The concept sounds great until you have been sitting in the deer woods for seven days and finally a little critter comes by you.  You WILL shoot it, no matter what it is because you have no other choice if you desire to hunt for a buck during the rut.  It also helps cause folks to do what was written up earlier (cheat).

One big issue is when folks that own good hunting property come onto public ground to shoot that antlerless deer cause they don't want to screw up their own property.

Earn a buck does not address the problem in the real world, only on paper. It is way more  complicated than just agreeing to shoot an antlerless deer first.
ChuckC

[Boxbow]

I would not be in favor of earn a buck. I would hate to be in my stand and have a nice buck come in and not be able to take him. Some years on my farm I will see lots of does, then some years I don't.

[Billy]

This is what I was getting at with the 'tools'.

I think it was Elinski(sp?), who basically said, 'Use their own tools and ethics against your opponent. They will have a hard time living up to them.'(paraphrased)

In other words; the 'tools' (people or rules) are set against hunting.


- People: the anti- fur, anti-archery, anti-meat groups; who elect legislators...
- Rules: Laws and restrictions that are set up to fail and then allow the people above more rhetoric

Now, as for those amongst us...It's we the "ethicals" who have to stand up to them, teach the young, and do what's right.

I know, tall orders and requests but, is there anyone else who will do it??

We pay the fees. We pay the taxes. We are the ones who abide by the rules. Why are we the ones who must suffer?

Unless WE get involved and try to change things; only we will lose or heritage.

Then the animals we love and hunt will suffer because of our loss.

I don't know how we can cause the rule makers to understand that EAB has not/will not work the way they intend it to. But, I do know that hunters are the only ones who can make the
CO-s , DNR, Legislators, etc...understand what we KNOW; everyone else is operating on theory.

I hunt hard with my longbow. I try to make my 'grounds' better and not deface them. I study my deer. I learn their habits and schedules. I believe that when I get that buck, I will have earned it; doe or not,first.

I also know the plants and browse that are in my area. I know when things are changing. Maybe what we need is more agriculture education or habitat education.

 I haven't seen any Cadillac hooded deer for a long time. How did that useless practice come to an end? The 'tools' on our side were shamed? educated? forced? to stop things like that. How?

What I'm getting to is; okay, EAB is not working. How do we fix it?

[Buckeye Trad Hunter]

Originally posted by ChuckC:


One big issue is when folks that own good hunting property come onto public ground to shoot that antlerless deer cause they don't want to screw up their own property.

ChuckC

That's a great point that most people don't think about Chuck.  What about the people that go onto heavily pressured areas that don't need the doe herd thined to take their antlerless deer.  That causes the opposite of what was intended.

[T Lail]

I teach hunter education and we get blasted with questions all the time.....Mojostick has it right.....it is all about managing hunters and good education.....we have people in our state that will shoot EVERY buck they see and never take a doe, then they whine about not seeing any LARGE racked bucks......it is very hard to change a mind set that has been taught for the last forty years.....I agree with some sort of buck and doe managment , but until the DNR's pour millions into the system for enforcement, it all goes back to "self control and ethics"....just my humble opinion......

[lonstand]

I'm all for it. Better yet harvest 2 does and get 2 buck tags.