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Author Topic: MN DNR pushing Crossbows  (Read 3749 times)

Online mnbwhtr

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MN DNR pushing Crossbows
« on: February 22, 2010, 08:33:00 AM »
I heard a week ago that the DNR here was pushing for xbows for 55 and older. It's official now with todays press release. They are taking input on a Public input survey to start tommorrow 2/23/10 at  www.mndnr.gov  Anyone can take the survey PLEASE DO!

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Re: MN DNR pushing Crossbows
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2010, 11:57:00 AM »
From what I can tell, the Xbow is being pushed everywhere--manufacturers need a new sales gimmick, and the DNRs think this will lure more people into buying hunting licenses. I watched a TV show the other day where the folks were hunting with Xbows, and touting the xbow as "the perfect urban deerhunting weapon". The things look as ungainly and unappealing as can be. Can't imagine they will be more than a passing fad anywhere.....hope not, anyway.

Offline pete p

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Re: MN DNR pushing Crossbows
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2010, 02:27:00 PM »
i think i need a barf bag.  what a joke...just another misguided idea from the over educated pencil pushers from the mn dnr. ever hear of a state that runs its 21 day gun season during the peak rut?? welcome to mn...

Offline Buckeye Trad Hunter

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Re: MN DNR pushing Crossbows
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2010, 04:38:00 PM »
Do you mean they will allow cross bows for hunters only if you're over 55?  I don't mean to ruffle feathers or play the Devil's advocate but this hits a little close to home.  

If crossbows weren't allowed here in Ohio my father wouldn't be able to hunt.  He has a physical impairment that prevents him from shooting a compound or stick bow.  Does he not deserve the right to hunt during archery season also?

Don't get me wrong, I get where you're coming from, I really do.  I used to feel the same way until my father became unable to hunt with his compound.  I'm just saying, let's think about the people who can only hunt with cross bows for whatever reason.

Offline LITTLEBIGMAN

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Re: MN DNR pushing Crossbows
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2010, 07:19:00 PM »
disabled hunters have access here to xbows should they so desire,  they are proposing ANYONE over 55 who chooses to hunt with an xbow may do so during the archery season  big difference
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Offline pete p

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Re: MN DNR pushing Crossbows
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2010, 10:56:00 PM »
buckeye, i hear ya....my dad is going to be 80 and still hunts. if he wants a crossbow id buy him one as he could easily get his doc to write the needed forms.  the dnr is proposing that anyone over 55 regardless of health would be able to shoot one

Online mnbwhtr

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Re: MN DNR pushing Crossbows
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2010, 10:34:00 AM »
Gordon,The figure the DNR uses is 11,000 handicapped permits for crossbows about 90% of these issued are to persons over 55, getting one is no problem. I really don't have a problem if a person is handicapped but how many can't pull a 30# compound? but yet hold up a eight bow crossbow to shoot it?

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Re: MN DNR pushing Crossbows
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2010, 11:01:00 AM »
I think there is money changing hands in this crossbow issue.  I am partially disabled, someone thinking that I would want to buy their's wanted me to try it. It is easier to shoot a 55 pound longbow than it is to load a crossbow with a cocking lever. It is always about the money, ethics and aesthetics don't matter anymore.

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Re: MN DNR pushing Crossbows
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2010, 11:16:00 AM »
Nobody has a problem with disabled people using Xbows, or compounds with drawing devices either, for that matter. General use, esp. during archery only seasons, is the issue.

Offline Buckeye Trad Hunter

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Re: MN DNR pushing Crossbows
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2010, 07:16:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mnbwhtr:
Gordon,The figure the DNR uses is 11,000 handicapped permits for crossbows about 90% of these issued are to persons over 55, getting one is no problem. I really don't have a problem if a person is handicapped but how many can't pull a 30# compound? but yet hold up a eight bow crossbow to shoot it?
I wasn't aware that your DNR allowed crossbows for those who can't hunt with a compound or longbows.  By the way they do make electronic and hand crank cockers that look kinda like a fishing reel, and not all states have a draw weight limit of 30#.  Also drawing a 30# bow is very different from holding up an 8# crossbow in every way.

I'm not trying to argue with anyone, I just wanted everyone to think of those who may only be able to bow hunt with a crossbow and as has been pointed out those people are already allowed to use crossbows so my point is, well, kinda pointless.  :knothead:

Offline Chris Shelton

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Re: MN DNR pushing Crossbows
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2010, 08:00:00 PM »
how many folks would want to hunt with a 30# bow?  I dont care what you do, or how you do it, I will never shoot a 30# bow at a deer, or for goodness sakes a bear!

Our state there is no permit required, and anyone can use one during the entire bow season.  I like your way better, but I would also make it for handicap persons as well.  

The way I think of it, is like this.  I absolutely love my recurves, and longbows.  But hopefully god will never disable me to where I can not shoot at least my 40 pound recurve, but if he does.  And everything happeneds for a reason, then I would die if I couldnt enjoy the most important/favorite time of the year.  And that to me is the early season.  I am definatly a pre-rut haloween type of guy.  But I totally disagree with regular healthy guys shooting a crossbow during a bow season.  If they really want to hunt with one, do it during rifle season, just my .02
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Offline Brian Krebs

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Re: MN DNR pushing Crossbows
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2010, 07:32:00 PM »
I know that if I can no longer pull a bow back and shoot an arrow- the crossbow could not replace anything but opportunity to kill.

 There is no similarity.

I have seen a girl shoot a tradbow that had no arms at all.
 I broke my wrist once; and used a release strapped to my elbow.. only way I could shoot a real bow.
 I broke my shoulder; and duck taped my longbow to my foot and sat and waited; and killed a buck.

 Its the flight of the arrow- not the flight of the bolt.

 I am sorry for those that cannot find a way to shoot a bow. I have seen a blind person shoot a bow and kill a deer. If there is a will there is a way.

 11,000 people that cannot find a 'way' to shoot anything other than the crossbow? I don't believe they have been informed of how to shoot; don't believe that many people are incapable of shooting an 'adequately weighted bow'.

 I bet Steven Hawking could figure a way to shoot a bow!! I betcha !!! It may involve some electronics and some technology- but he could shoot the bow your shooting and the arrow your shooting - if he wanted to. Betcha.  

 Sorry - I think some people have found a way to cheat their way into the bowseason.

 Again I am sorry for the person that cannot shoot a bow. I am sorry for the day I cannot.

 You cannot replace the bow with a crossbow.
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Offline huntindad

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Re: MN DNR pushing Crossbows
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2010, 01:47:00 AM »
Seems there is alot of "I" in some of these posts and no consideration for the people who are handicapped. To some it may be simple to grab the bow and find a way even if handicapped but to others it is not just a matter of finding an easy way just a finding a way.

No able person should be allowed to hunt with a crossbow in an archery season but to expect an armless person to be able to shoot a bow because you saw it once or because you were in some way able to overcome a temporary disability and still shoot your bow so any body should be able to do the same is akin to saying that no matter your age or ability you should be playing professional sports right now and not complaining about your deadend job and looking for an "easy" way to make a better living.

We are not all born with the same capabilities or ethics or standards so to one a 20 yard shot is max and to another its 35 to another its 15. The same hold for ones ability to overcome. One person will feel what needs overcoming is to find a way to see the flight of an arrow cast from a recurve or longbow but to another it may be what needs overcome is the ability to be in the woods at a certain time of the year chasing a certain animal."I" should not be the one who judges that.

The fact remains that many will abuse a system that allows for a person who is not so disabled to hunt with a crossbow however that is not reason enough to say that a legitimately disabled person cannot hunt in archery season if he is incapable of shooting a bow of hunting weight.

One thing is true "if there is a will there is a way" and for some it is the crossbow.


As for the original post I don't think that its a good idea to allow any 55 year old who wishes to use a crossbow in archery season. I don't have or want a crossbow and don't think the appeal will last long for others either I think they are a fad and the money is behind them but if tragedy struck me or a loved one and it is the ONLY way then so be it.

A crossbow would never "replace" a bow but I would imagine to the permanently disabled it is quite a small and trivial difference compared to the others they suddenly face.

Bill
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Online mjh

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Re: MN DNR pushing Crossbows
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2010, 11:08:00 AM »
The state of MN has a system in place to allow people with disablities to use crossbows in the archery season.. The state of MN allows the use of crossbows during regular firearms season, bear season and turkey season.  If these allowances aren't good enough them you've got more that an equipment and season choice problem.

I am opposed to the general use of crossbows in the archery season regardless of age. I filled out the survey and made indvidual contact with the MN DNR on issues important to me.

As a person under the age of 55 I'm affronted by the states discriminatory stance towards those younger than 55 and have made my opinion know to the MN DNR.

Offline Brian Krebs

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Re: MN DNR pushing Crossbows
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2010, 03:30:00 PM »
Bill: don't take this in a bad way- but I just about disagree with everything you said.
 There are times and places for the use of a crossbow - like in an anyweapon season.
 But it is not a bow; and the use of it is not a replacement for the bow.
 Different concept; different deal.
I can agree with what mjh says.

 I know how a disability can be limiting. I have been disabled for 21 years.

 A crossbow is not a bow; and you can not pretend it is.
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Offline Hatrick

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Re: MN DNR pushing Crossbows
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2010, 04:25:00 PM »
mnbwhtr, 55 and older for now, and 0 and older in the not too distant future. You can count on it.
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Offline huntindad

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Re: MN DNR pushing Crossbows
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2010, 11:56:00 PM »
Brian no problem, if we can't disagree without getting upset then we shouldn't be posting and reading these types of threads.

If you don't mind me asking what is the nature of your disability and does it hinder your ability to draw a bow.If so then maybe a tutorial is in order for those who may need it and might otherwise be tempted by the crossbow.

I agree that a crossbow in the hands of an able person belongs in an any weapon season and I also believe that there should be more trad only opportunities.

Your right it is not a bow nor is it a replacement for a bow and is a very different concept.

I gave up pretending long ago but I still think that anyone disabled or not couldn't know another person's burden so well as to say they are not disabled enough to warrant the use of any legal means to keep the fire lit.Its like they say until you have walked a mile in his shoes you don't really have a right to judge.


I will say again that the proposed law that inspired the thread is ridiculous and is only the tip of a large iceberg as many have stated  but the disabled persons' use is a very different issue.

Bill
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Offline bridog

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Re: MN DNR pushing Crossbows
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2010, 05:55:00 PM »
Hello Everyone,
I put this on our Minnesota Trad forum but thought I'd share it here also.

Alright I'm going to throw my $1.02 cents in.  The below is my opinion - and a strong one at that...  I do not believe crossbows should be allowed into the archery season other than for disabled persons.

I was at the public meeting in Waseca, and I and others from my local archery club have been in coorespondence with the DNR.  This crossbow use in the archery season deal is definately being driven by something other than real bowhunter retention as the DNR is stating.  

The room had several DNR biologist types that I would guess are highly educated and experienced, but the one glaring thing that I took away from the meeting was that they were awful nervous and unsure of themselves on this subject.  Something that you don't do if you are sure of your position and know what your saying is right.  Personnaly I think they have a hard time supporting it themselves other than it is obvious that it is the company stand and they have to.  The only supporting info for or against crossbows they had in thier presentation was a graph showing a decline of licenses sold somewhere around the age of 50, they kept pointing at it and acting like it was the smoking gun and if they passed this no one would quit bowhunting at any age.  The truth is that people quit for many reasons when they get older...

Personnaly I believe that crossbows ARE NOT archery equipment - The way crossbows are loaded, aimed and fired are indicative of a firearm.  They do not present the same challenges and intricacies that make archery unique.  By being able to pre-draw and not having to draw the bow with an animal near, holding the draw waiting for an ethical shot, utilizing a firearm stock, utilizing a firearm trigger, increased range, etc. this makes a crossbow a completely different Non-Archery weapon.  Crossbows are a great compliment to the firearms season and should remain there.  

There are many outcomes I see if this is passed;

A significant weapons shift into the archery season - Meaning there will be numerous firearms hunters that will quit gun hunting and pick a crossbow up in favor of the warmer and longer bow season.  There are 92,000 firearms hunters that would be able to switch seasons according to the DNR.  I do not see overall (gun, bow and muzzleloader) hunter numbers increasing but just shifting all while decreaseing the quality of the hunt, decreasing hunter access and decreasing archery success for the 98,000 bowhunters of this state.

There will be decreased hunter access - to both private and public lands if this measure is passed.  Land owners that currently allow archery hunters onto their lands will likely have a member(s) of their firearms parties convert over to a crossbow thus eliminating past access.  State lands will have increased pressures that will prevent a quality and effective hunt.  This measure will create yet another conflict amongst outdoors users by further overlapping activities.  If the DNR truly wants to retain hunters – give outdoors people a place to hunt.  Hunter access is the biggest problem facing all hunters.

In general, I do not believe that crossbow users that have been converted from firearms users will practice and become proficient and familiar with their weapons capabilities and limitations.  I believe that they will act similar to many firearms hunters, site the gun in once and if it didn’t drop in it’s tracks they must have missed it.  These actions would cast a poor light on archery as the negative impacts from the poor use of crossbows would now be directly related to true archery equipment.  I believe that the crossbow users that are converted from firearms hunters in general will have higher game losses due to poor shot choices and/or subsequent follow up of shots taken.

I believe that including crossbows into the archery season would negatively impact my bowhunting heritage.  The way and locations in which I traditionally bowhunt would be altered significantly and negatively by this intrusion.  Archers are a passionate and dedicated group that thrive on the challenges that hunting with a bow and arrow present, the crossbow does not equal the values that this archer believes in.

The DNR already has a mechanism in place for disabled or injured persons to use a crossbow within the archery season.  In fact there are 11,000 permits issued annually.  It is generally accepted by both sides of the argument and seems reasonable to me as an archer.  The recently reduced draw weight of bows to 30#’s also makes this additional intrusion unnecessary.

I feel that this is a back door tactic to get crossbows into a season that they do not belong.  It appears to me that the DNR is trying to get its foot in the door under the guise of hunter retainage and age.  If crossbow users truly want a season other than that with the firearms season, then they should be able to justify their use on their own.  Crossbows should not ride in on the coat tails of archery hunters of the state of Minnesota that have proved themselves for decades and alter the traditions that they have experienced and earned.

I would encourage everyone to make your feeling known to the DNR no matter which side of the fence your on...  If you don't put your dog in the fight then you can't complain later.

Thanks for listening - Bridog

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Re: MN DNR pushing Crossbows
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2010, 08:08:00 PM »
This "push" for crossbows in archery season (mostly bought and paid for by ATA, and NRA) is despicable.    "[dntthnk]"   Bowhunters dont want it, most gun hunters could careless.

PS Check your wildlife commission members for kickbacks, ulterior motives, and conflicts of interest   - I have seen how these elected and/or appointed officials conduct "business" in other states
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Online mnbwhtr

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Re: MN DNR pushing Crossbows
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2010, 02:06:00 PM »
After attending the DNR input or should I say output meeting last night I believe every bowhunter in MN had better become good friends with their legislators, Lou Cornicelli is pushing this without facts or figures to back him up and usually what Lou wants Lou gets. When statistics were given to him he simply said fact check what you have is baked info from MBI or Pope and Young. No reasoning with this man. This has to be changed by legislation and I'm sure he has the legislators lined up to introduce the bill. Please get the word out about the survey online. MN.dnr.gov I believe is the address. Thanks

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