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Author Topic: Antiquitys Act to close land  (Read 3622 times)

Offline wapitimike1

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Antiquitys Act to close land
« on: March 11, 2010, 05:21:00 AM »
I see the President is using a old (1906) act to close 14 million acres of Fed land to us. They already shut down major parts of the eastern seaboard to fishing now this!!
I guess that's what you get when you have a animal rights activist 2nd in comand at the Dep of Interior. Lets not forget about Cas Sustien as regulatory Czar!!

Offline Billy

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Re: Antiquitys Act to close land
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2010, 07:50:00 AM »
Is there anything that the Mao honoring,tree hugging, granola crunching, wolves are huggable, and veggies are meat too; politicos won't try??

NO !!

What we as the descendants of the 'original conservationists' (hunters and fishers) must do, is stand up and be counted. When we do so with the knowledge that we are the ones with the Constitution on our side, it will be slow; but, we can make the corrections.

This land grab is about coal, natural gas, etc,etc....It will restrict hunting and fishing as a nice little side dish, for the supporters of PETA, Vegan groups, and other supporters of Chairman MaO-bama and other Progressive,Socialist, Liberals

City people and indoor types are not going to affected by this UN-Constitutional use of power.

 Teddy Roosevelt, who started all the 'National Park' line of thought; was wrong when he used the government to seal these lands off. He, nonetheless, did have a good thought by setting aside land for recreational use. It was done wrongly and against the Constitution; that is my gripe.

Once again, a power taken by government that is being abused. Most people will agree, that using the 'parks and monuments' power for preserving this or that for posterity; mostly good. Using that same power to glean political favor with the anti-hunting, anti-drilling, anti-mining or ANY interest group including for hunting only!!

These things should be done by a State, within a State -of, by and for- the People of that State.

Sorry, I know; back on the soap box....what say you?
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Offline Tsalagi

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Re: Antiquitys Act to close land
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2010, 08:36:00 PM »
Well, Billy, I hate to bring this up, but you said:
"This land grab is about coal, natural gas, etc,etc...."

Then said:

"Using that same power to glean political favor with the anti-hunting, anti-drilling, anti-mining or ANY interest group including for hunting only!!"

  You can't have it both ways. If you're pro-mining and pro-drilling, then you can't really complain about loss of hunting land. I guarantee you that the CEOs of the oil and mining companies couldn't care less about whether or not you lost your hunting land. In fact, they do more damage than the anti-hunters. Land closed to hunting still exists and can eventually be re-opened through political pressure. With mining, you end up with a colossal hole where mountains used to be.

  The CEOs of oil and mining interests use wedge issues to generate support among people that really have nothing in common with their objectives. It's relatively easy to label people as "...Mao honoring,tree hugging, granola crunching, wolves are huggable, and veggies are meat too...PETA, Vegan groups, and other supporters of Chairman MaO-bama and other Progressive,Socialist, Liberals..." It's a lot harder to get back hunting land because you backed the corporations that turned hunting land into an open-pit mine or oil field. And, sorry, but Teddy Roosevelt was right to create national parks. Had he not done so, there wouldn't be anything left.

  Things are not so black and white as "all liberals are bad" or such blanket statements. It was a push for environmental laws that protects the wilderness, not some non-existant conservation ethic of corporations. And who led the way for those laws and started the environmental movement? Yep, it was "liberals".

  I do not support mining and drilling at-will. These things must be regulated for the good of all, not the profits of corporations. For one thing, we'd use less copper (and, hence, require less copper mines which are always gargantuan open-pit operations these days) if we just returned to repairable appliances and stopped throwing away things like electric mixers after a year of use. All this cheap crap comes with a much bigger price tag than the one on the box. The true price is loss of American jobs, the enrichment of a true communist country (China, you know, where the real Chairman Mao lived), loss of habitat to increased need for landfills to dispose of the crap, and more mines and oil to make the crap to replace the crap that broke after a year. Who pays that price? Nature pays that price, along with the American workers who no longer make the appliances.

  Anyone who's ever physically stood at an open pit mine or vast oil field needs to imagine their favorite hunting spot as one of those things before they start supporting drilling and mining interests. By the way, the CEOs of those corporations can afford to fly to Africa to hunt when they drill the last wetland or strip mine the last forest here. If you haven't ever seen an open pit mine or an oilfield, take a trip to one and see what you're supporting.

  A nation is not great because of how fast or how much it can unearth it's natural resources. It is great by how wisely it uses those resources and by not wasting them for flippant reasons. "Drill, baby, drill" is not the answer. Conserve, baby, conserve is the answer. The reason corporations push for more drilling and mining is because they want more profits. ALright, I get it. But the planet belongs to all of us; we're not talking about people who want to grow shiitake mushrooms here. We're talking about people who want to tear open the Earth and basically destroy Nature. That act requires a consensus of all people (or at least it should), not some board of directors. We don't really need more copper, for example. We need to be smarter about using copper. Like making repairable appliances, as I said, instead of crap that gets thrown away. We're throwing away probably hundreds or thousands of tons of copper a year due to this disposable electric motor and appliance society.
Heads Carolina, Tails California...somewhere greener...somewhere warmer...or something soon to that effect...

Offline wapitimike1

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Re: Antiquitys Act to close land
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2010, 05:42:00 AM »
Well I will say, I'm not sure about Mr Os motives on this one. I'm sure he doesn't have Americas best interest in mind.
I'm not one to jump on the CEO bashing band wagon. Since when in America is success a punishable crime, oh I know.
Conserve is one thing but to have and not use is dumb. It's like being stranded haveing food and starving to death at the same time. You don't save it for a day that never comes.
This Country has a wealth of natural resorses. To not use them because of lawsuit happy eco freaks is ignorance. They could pull all the oil this country needs out of Alaska. The Caribou herds increased due to drilling. The warmth of the pipe line turned out to be a boon for a bearthing area.
I do however agree we are a waisteful sociaty. I build for a living and recycle to the point of just about building my whole house, barns and sheds that way. As far as smaller components because we are so waisteful, some times the parts needed to repair things arn't even avalible for sale.
It seems to me American companys far and away do the most to keep a area or should I say return areas to there natural state after use. There are  areas that were once mined through out mid west that are great hunting grounds today.
There's know one in this world that can say what they do does not effect one thing or another. I see protesters against Nuke power or what have you, they go home every night and flip the switch on for lights.
My personal take on the land grab is it's just one other way to make America pay for it's Success!

Offline Tsalagi

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Re: Antiquitys Act to close land
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2010, 08:44:00 PM »
Wapitimike said:
"It seems to me American companys far and away do the most to keep a area or should I say return areas to there natural state after use."

  Yeah, and you know why that is, Mike? Because those, what did you call them...oh yeah, "lawsuit happy eco freaks" got laws passed that FORCED mining companies to do so. Otherwise, they certainly wouldn't. They didn't out at Bisbee. See here:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavender_Pit     or other open pit mines I could name.

Oh, before I forget, check out this "corporate responsibility" crowd-pleaser:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Mountain_Mine  

Would you like me to post a list of such things? Perhaps I could bring up the Cuyahoga River, too. In fact, I will:
    http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=1642    

See, Mike? There's your responsible corporations for ya! A law had to be passed to FORCE them not to dump toxic waste into our rivers. You know, rivers, where people used to be able to fish once upon a time?

  I could go on like this all day, Mike. I could list pages and pages of Superfund sites, places where our tax dollars are being used to clean up after corporations who made the profits and passed the environmental costs on to the taxpayers. Know what that means, Mike? It means WE THE PEOPLE ultimately pay for certain corporations' success, since they handed off the environmental costs to us.
Heads Carolina, Tails California...somewhere greener...somewhere warmer...or something soon to that effect...

Offline wapitimike1

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Re: Antiquitys Act to close land
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2010, 05:14:00 AM »
I'm not saying that eco sins of the past were not bad. I have a great river right next to me to this day you can't eat fish out of. It flooded and washed out GEs PCB in to it. Can't eat any small mouth Bass out of the river and it was over 25 years ago. I realize some companys abuse the enviroment just as some people do. I know the whole Erin Brockovich deal but some, not all.
Have you ever been to Europe some of the rivers coming out of eastern block are orange!
I believe today maybe because of the laws or better management they seem much improved. I can't see any oil corporation turning Alaska into the Love Canal that's all.
How did we go from the land grab to a corporate pounding.
My philosphy is simple. If Hollywoods for it I'm against it!!

Offline mwmwmb

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Re: Antiquitys Act to close land
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2010, 08:52:00 AM »
Quote
I can't see any oil corporation turning Alaska into the Love Canal that's all.
 
That is because of our environmental laws and lawsuit happy eco freaks.

A modern example of what tsalagi is talking about it. here in AR there is new technology that allows for access to natural gas in a deep shale formation. the companies flooded into the area and began regularly violated the clean water act. They denied their actions until they were caught. I personally know of HUNDREDS of outstanding violations that may require mitigation.

   
Quote
How did we go from the land grab to a corporate pounding
because "land Grabs" protect it from Corporations for use by the public.  Dont like "land grabs", dont go to National parks, national Forests, wildlife refuges, or local state management areas or dont fish any of the man-made reservoirs.

On the PBS documentary series about national parks, there were countless examples of this type of "land grab hysteria".

Offline wapitimike1

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Re: Antiquitys Act to close land
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2010, 06:23:00 PM »
This land grab doesn't allow you to fish or hunt if look into it.

Offline Tsalagi

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Re: Antiquitys Act to close land
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2010, 06:54:00 PM »
But the land still exists. That's my point. With mining, the land literally disappears. It becomes a gigantic hole where nothing will ever live again.

I'm not into an all-or-nothing gambit where if I can't hunt someplace, then it's not worth protecting the land. If there are places to hunt but one place is off limits, I am ok with that as long as the land is protected. Hunting is just one of many things I enjoy in Nature, not the only thing. I care deeply about the plants and animals that live in Nature. I care deeply about the Earth itself. In fact, I love Nature and won't ever support senseless destruction of Nature, not for any reason.
Heads Carolina, Tails California...somewhere greener...somewhere warmer...or something soon to that effect...

Offline wapitimike1

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Re: Antiquitys Act to close land
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2010, 08:22:00 AM »
I don't believe supplying energy to our country is senceless. I do how know that being held hostage by countrys that hate us is dangerous. I'm sure we can find a balance that will get us out of that cunundrum.
The land slated to be closed has been open for hunting and fishing for years. If you look at the White Houses policy makers most are lunatic frindge nuts. I think there's something a bit more sinister behind it. When you have animal rights activist making your policys you can't believe they don't have a agenda.

Offline Tsalagi

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Re: Antiquitys Act to close land
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2010, 10:27:00 PM »
"If you look at the White Houses policy makers most are lunatic frindge nuts. I think there's something a bit more sinister behind it."

  No, they aren't. Most of them are typical old "say whatever to get elected then do nothing" politicians.  

  Senseless, yes, when I see RVs the size of blue whales carrying trailers full of ATVs up the road here. We're not being held hostage by countries that hate us. They're not putting guns to our heads and forcing us to buy oil. We're being held hostage by our own citizenry! Or do you not remember when W went over to Saudi Arabai and begged them to sell us more oil about three years ago? Oil is a finite commodity. Thus, it makes sense to start conserving it rather than acting like it'll last forever with trucks and SUVs that get 9 to 12 MPG. The reason we're buying oil from Middle Eastern countries is because the demand is so high for it here, generally thanks to vehicles that are gas guzzlers. Because you can't talk about improving fuel economy without someone waving the bloody shirt about his alleged "right" to drive a gigantic SUV being violated by so-called "socialists". Yeah, ok, so you drill for domestic reserves. What then when that runs out because no one is willing to give up driving gas guzzlers? But, never mind that because there aren't enough domestic reserves to replace what we buy from foreign countries.

  When I think of lunatic fringe nuts, I actually think of certain radio and TV talk show hosts.    :biglaugh:
Heads Carolina, Tails California...somewhere greener...somewhere warmer...or something soon to that effect...

Offline wapitimike1

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Re: Antiquitys Act to close land
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2010, 05:20:00 AM »
We have plenty of oil. Alaska, the Dakotas and the western slope we have more then the middle east. We can't or haven't drilled for ours since the Hippy movement of the 60-70s. If we could go back in time and erase that WoodStock era we'd be much better of morally and financially. Just think about it, the libral college profesor a conservative!
Ya gotta love those talk show host. They keep a watchful eye on every one in power.

Offline mwmwmb

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Re: Antiquitys Act to close land
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2010, 07:15:00 PM »
Quote
We have plenty of oil. Alaska, the Dakotas and the western slope we have more then the middle east.
Not Even Close.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_proven_oil_reserves

Offline mwmwmb

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Re: Antiquitys Act to close land
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2010, 07:16:00 PM »
unless you are counting Canada a state.  :biglaugh:

Offline Brian Krebs

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Re: Antiquitys Act to close land
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2010, 08:02:00 PM »
We have a huge reserve of natural gas; and I have met a lot of people that worked drilling for oil; found it; and capped the well off 'until the price of oil goes up'. I don't think its our 'nations reserve'; its more the oil peoples 'greed bank'.

 Corporate crime pays good.
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Offline Tsalagi

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Re: Antiquitys Act to close land
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2010, 08:55:00 PM »
"We can't or haven't drilled for ours since the Hippy movement of the 60-70s. If we could go back in time and erase that WoodStock era we'd be much better of morally and financially."

  Yeah, there wouldn't have been a Civil Rights Act, employers could refuse to hire minorities and women, businesses could practice segregation, the Vietnam War would have gone on another 10 years---probably another 60,000 KIA and for what...would you like me to go on about those so-called "good ol' days"? Why don't you tell me what was moral about discriminating against people based on the color of their skin, or the religion they follow, or their gender, or national origin?
Heads Carolina, Tails California...somewhere greener...somewhere warmer...or something soon to that effect...

Offline mwmwmb

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Re: Antiquitys Act to close land
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2010, 09:10:00 PM »
Hey, dont forget the clean water act or clean air act, or the endangered species act. the cuyahoga river would still be burning, all the wetlands gone, all public land rape buy mineral companies or other corporations.

Offline huntindad

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Re: Antiquitys Act to close land
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2010, 10:02:00 PM »
Yeah that affirmative action is working out great!

White students have to have almost a full GPA point higher than a minority to get into the best schools and if a company needs its quota of a certain race filled then your out of luck even if your more qualified for the job unless you happen to be in the group they need.

Discrimination works both ways and neither is good.

Environmentally speaking I think we are the better for the granola/Teva crowd, economically probably not so much. Morally I think we slipped back a bit in the 60's and 70's and as long as we give hand out instead of give a hand up the ripple effect of the entitlement mentality will continue to move its way around our society.

Bill
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Offline Tsalagi

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Re: Antiquitys Act to close land
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2010, 10:36:00 PM »
You might see things otherwise, Huntindad, had your very recent ancestors been slaves and then, once freed, were lynched rountinely and denied full rights right up until 1964.

I think we progressed morally in the 1960s. It was no longer ok to discriminate against people based on who they were or what they believed. I think the 1960s forced America to, once again, read the Bill of Rights and Constitution and live up to those ideals rather than just using them as window dressing. But, see the hand up instead of a hand out that you want? That's what Affirmative Action is. It's a hand up.
Heads Carolina, Tails California...somewhere greener...somewhere warmer...or something soon to that effect...

Offline huntindad

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Re: Antiquitys Act to close land
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2010, 10:57:00 PM »
Affirmative action is discrimination as any other mandate that says one is hired or allowed in college based on the color of his or her skin.

I don't believe I revealed the color of mine!

I would be EMBARRASSED!!! if I had to rely on the color of my skin to get a job or get into school. It is a slap in the face of any MAN who is given a job that another MAN is more qualified for based on skin color and not his ability. It infers the man cannot get a job without this help BECAUSE he is not qualified even if he is.

DISCRIMINATION!! Period.

The Bill of Rights doesn't say anything about Quotas! It says ALL men are created equal and should have EQUAL rights!

I AM AGAINST ALL DISCRIMINATION!!!

We cannot undo what was done in the past as HORRIBLE as it was.

Bill
The days spent hunting cannot be deducted from  the span of your life's time.

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