Do you take a firearm for back up?

[OkKeith]

Lawrence,

I agree with you. A cool head, a plan and some prior training/experience are the BEST tools for dealing with an emergency in the backwoods. It's helpful even in a stressful situation while hunting/fishing/camping and many people have none of it.

The original post was about a back-up situation relating to game that might injure a hunter after being shot with an arrow. It evolved into a discussion of dealing with defense situations of all types while hunting.

I think it is important to remember that archery equipment is lethal due mainly to blood loss. Discounting a lucky spine hit, even several arrows on target might not stop (as in, in their tracks, no more forward progress) an animal or an assailant. That's why your State Trooper friend carries a firearm and not a bow or crossbow.

I take my firearm use just as seriously as my archery hunting. I practice with my archery tackle in a way that prepares me for hunting situations, shooting at various distances, at other than straight-on angles. I practice with my sidearm in similar instances. Responsible firearm ownership is the OWNERS responsibility, no one else’s. Just like it is a bowhunter’s responsibility to be effective with their equipment in hunting situations and know their limits.

Again, I agree with you that a clear head is the most valuable tool anyone can have for all situations. Sometimes just a clear head will not get you out of what you have gotten yourself into.

OkKeith

If I was in grizzly country I think I would need to figure out how to carry a ten gauge shotgun or put more faith in my ability to quick draw my counter assault.  Went out and tried a few shots with my 22 mag, I will not be trusting my abilities with a pistol anytime soon, if ever.

[OkKeith]

Lawrence,

You have really hit upon the key to this discussion, whether it is for defensive carry or back-up on game, confidence.

I think practice; with archery tackle, with firearms or with tiddley-winks, gives us not only better skill but a confidence in our equipment and our ability to use it.

I might even argue that the confidence must come first or the skill will not follow.

This has been a good thread.

OkKeith

[razorsharptokill]

I was lucky enough to grow up in a family where guns were allowed, encouraged and respected. I never had some one who had been brainwashed by the mainstream liberal media telling me to fear firearms because they cause crime and kill people. What utter B.S.

A gun is a tool just like your pocket knife, flashlight etc..

The right tool for the right job. Unfortunately there are people in this world that by their actions require us to have the ability to use deadly force. A gun is the right tool for that job, nothing more.

Thank God that I'm still able to bare arms and defend my family and myself.

It's like a seat belt, you won't have time to put on when it is the only thing that will save your life.

[Tsalagi]

Funny sidetrack. I discovered people get more freaked out encountering a person in the woods carrying a spear than a person carrying a holstered pistol. Figure that one out.

[OkKeith]

Kevan,

Sounds like there may be a good story behind that statement.

OkKeith

[Landshark160]

Originally posted by pavan:
At twenty yards, 6 shots in thirty seconds.  I beat him every time with a Jerry Hill Bamboo Special. I am not an expert with a pistol and apparently neither was my friend, but how good does one need to be to really know that it is a reliable backup or survival(food wise) tool versus just a noise maker.  

Defensively speaking, move up to 5 yards or less and repeat the exercise.  That is a more realistic scenario for an interpersonal confrontation.

[Ragnarok Forge]

Originally posted by pavan:

At twenty yards, 6 shots in thirty seconds. I beat him every time with a Jerry Hill Bamboo Special. I am not an expert with a pistol and apparently neither was my friend, but how good does one need to be to really know that it is a reliable backup or survival(food wise) tool versus just a noise maker.

Your buddy shoots that badly? That man needs to spend more time behind the trigger.  I will happily shoot against any trad archer in the world with my handgun from zero on out to 100 yards and will beat them for time and accuracy  every time.  I take my weapons training seriously. I am still breathing because of my hard trained skills.  

You cannot compare an incompetent pistolero who clearly does not practice his weapons skills very much against an archer who shoots a lot. Harvesting animals at 100 yards with a pistol is not a hard task for a trained shooter.  Try that with a longbow.

I agree, I have a problem with the sound, I flinch.  My wife can out shoot me with a pistol easily.  However, with a longbow I can keep things pretty tight with an arrow about every four seconds.  In most places in the midwest I do not believe that I would really need one for immediate protection, the rest of the world may have more violent types.  I am a bowhunter, I only hunt with longbows.  I have more of a fear of running into reckless gun use than anyone that has illegal intentions.  I have seen way more people handling pistols dangerously that obviously did not possess them for the right reasons, but never out in the woods.  To defend my buddy he would have been able to hit a human target, I beat him when the points were tallied.  I am concerned that our 2nds amendment rights are in jeopardy, it is not skilled users that are causing the most of the bad media hype.  It's the punk that thinks he is somehow tougher because he has a pistol.  To need to use force to defend yourself against that type of person is a bad deal all the way around.  I am glad that they don't frequent our woods.  It must not be much fun to fear such an occurrence when out hunting to a point that a sidearms may be needed.  I thought the original post was more concerned with bears or mountain lions.

[OkKeith]

Lawrence,

You are right, the original post had to do with follow up shots on game animals who might eat you if didn't kill them right off.

As far as that goes, I only carried my pistol when either on my lease, or on my buddie's place in south Texas. In both cases we were on a "Hog Eradication Mission". I love to hunt hogs, love to eat hogs, more power to the folks that have hogs. Dang things tear up more deer habitat than they are worth around here, in my opinion.

Some folks use guns, some folks don't; no big deal to me.  For me, bows are more fun, and have more soul. Guns are just a handy tool. I also think if you are gonna use one you should know how, and that means A LOT more than understanding which end the bullet comes out of.

My wife can usually out shoot me too, with just about anything! That's what I get for hooking-up with a Texas farm girl. She likes to hunt and fish though. Never gotta "make it up to her" when I go. She always goes with me.

OkKeith

[Ratatat]

GOT GLOCK?
I carry everywhere all the time, even church.  Too many wackos these days.

[coffee]

I don't know if this is a good example but I once asked my financial planner How much money does one invest in higher risk options?  Easy answer he said. What is your sleep factor? I guess packing heat comes down to the same deal. I know the odds of a bad encounter whether human or beast are small at best. I know a clean camp, food stored properly, and cooking away from where you sleep will do more good than carrying a gun. Even with a gun will you really get off a killing shot, I mean one that stops a Griz, in time?  I had a friend killed in Montana who was killed while he dressed his cow elk out and his 270 was within his reach. Maybe you read about that one RMEF magazine.  I for the most part think 99.9% of all bear stories are exagerated or somewhat streched!  The problem is when I float hunted in Alaska and woke up to tracks my size 10 boots would fit into and this was feet from the tent it did not boost my confidence. Neither did stalking down trails next to the river in willows over my head where I could only see a few feet ahead.  Better yet try it at night!  Packing heat is a pain.  Try to get a handgun into Canada.  See how much fun it is even if your going to Alaska or lower 48 and you have to pack a firearm. Then there is carrying the thing.  They way a ton and even more if you have a pack on, or are in rough or mountainous country. In answer to the question I have done both but would state that packin heat really takes away from the hunt and enjoyment.  Maybe the question would be better stated as to how we deal with fear and overcome those fears through our own knowledge and experience. Even if you do survive some kind of attack I think your problems would be just beginning.  If it is a griz you will have to deal with fish and game. If it human who knows what will happen.  Well just some food for thought.  I don't have any answers.

[huntin_sparty]

People are the scariest things in the woods where I hunt so I do it for 2 legged predators walking back or putting away stuff at the parking areas. I have my CCW so it is legal.

[Ragnarok Forge]

The pistola is not for bears or cougars, it is for two legged predators.  Need it one time and don't have it and your mind changes or your dead.

As for being a pain to carry, I used to carry an M-60, 15 lbs of extra ammo and a 60 lb ruck full of explosives as a combat engineer.  5 pounds of pistol and extra ammo ain't nothing.  I don't even notice the extra weight.  I suppose if all you have ever hunted with is a light trad bow and a back quiver, then things might seem different.

[OkKeith]

Lowell,

I don't envey you and all that gear!

I carry a pretty light pistol for the firepower it provides. Titanium .357, 7-shot revolver, 4 inch barrel. Light enough (27 ounces, unloaded) that I don't really notice I have it, it has enough knock down power to handle anything I might have problems with. I doubt I will run into any grizzlies.

It's a good tool for what I use it for. I never really trusted a semi- for field use (not one made for civilian use anyway). Good thing about a revolver, if it don't go bang, just pull the trigger again. No "tap and rack" needed.

Thank-you for your service to this country! Dad was in the 5th SF group from 1961-1968 in SE Asia, little brother currently serves with a Scout unit for an Air Assault Brgd. He has been to Iraq and is prepareing to be deployed to Afganistan. My family understands the sacrifice you have made.

OkKeith

[Ragnarok Forge]

I saw a year in the sandbox myself.  Rather drab, with unfriendly locals, and enough heat to make Texas in the summer feel nice.

My carry piece is a very reliable 1911-A1. I carry 3 hi capacity magazines  for a total of 42 rounds. Two mags of hollow points and one of solids.   If I see a black bear or cougar, I am going to shoot it with my bow.  I always have tags in season. peace of mind is worth a little weight on the hip.

If I saw a grizzly bear, I would avoid it one way or another.   I wouldn't bother shooting it with a 45 ACP.  It would just piss it off and end up with me dead for sure.  Better to avoid the bear, or hit it with pepper spray.

[OkKeith]

We have Black Bears and Mt. Lions here. The bears are pretty numerous in the SE part of the state but the cats are extremely few and far between.

We go to Wyoming every year for two weeks to do some fishing in the Tetons and the Shoshone/Bridger Forest. For sure bears and cats in that area.

How I would love to get a chance to hunt the mule deer and elk we always see while we are fishing. Chasing a mule deer up there, spot and stalk, is a dream hunt for me.

OkKeith

[Quinn]

Many of you have allowed your government to take away your right to defend yourselves and your loved ones. I find this puzzling...
I always carry, my wife always carries. Always.
It's like any other type of insurance, hopefully you won't need it but if you do...

[FrankM]

I haven't hunted yet with a bow. But when in the woods, camping, etc. I am always armed. Especially, way up in the Cascades or somewhere remote. It's just prudent.

[Bowwild]

It recently became legal to pack any firearm you want in the KY woods during any of the hunting seasons.  I believe most hunters are very honest people and will obey game regulations. Therefore I'm not too concerned about bowhunters packing a firearm (I would think a concealed carry handgun or pistol).  However, I don't understand the need for "protection", especially in the Eastern United States.  The only dangerous animal in the woods is a tresspassing or careless human. I wouldn't consider using lethal force on either so why take the firearm?  Anyone concerned about coyotes needs to know there are only two reported human deaths attributed to coyotes in the past 40 years -- a child in CA and a folk singer this past October in Nova Scotia. I'm legle to pack a handgun but never do. But, I support the right to keep and bear arms by any responsible and law-abiding person anywhere, anytime.