How have land leases affected hunting?

[Buckeye Trad Hunter]

First off I'm not sure where to post this so if it's in the wrong forum I apologize.

I have another topic posted and the issue of leased land was brought up.  The property where I hunted as a kid was leased by about 20 some guys from the city and about two of them actually hunt it.  This made me wonder how this affects hunting as well as game management.  If the people on the lease don't hunt and no one else can hunt because then you're trespassing so then it's not possible to control the game population.  

That being said, how does everyone else feel about it?

[rastaman]

In my area of the state, you either own land, lease land, or hunt on public WMA land.  i don't see it ever going back to how it was when i grew up..we would pick the phone up and ask if we could hunt their land.  Most of the time the answer was yes.  Money talks though and times have changed.  You either adapt or don't hunt.

[Robert Honaker]

made it worse.

[Robert Honaker]

The hunting is better, but less enjoyable...

[Gottabow]

I think it has major effects on how many people actually hunt.  People talk about the fact that hunting is being done less and less well, alot of people cannot or will not justify the price of a lease.  I would have to say for myself if thats what it came down to I would quit also...it helped to thin the ranks and therefor the support of the sport...just my opinion.

[Night Wing]

Originally posted by Gottabow:
I think it has major effects on how many people actually hunt.  People talk about the fact that hunting is being done less and less well, alot of people cannot or will not justify the price of a lease.  I would have to say for myself if thats what it came down to I would quit also...it helped to thin the ranks and therefor the support of the sport...just my opinion.

I agree. Here in Texas, lease prices have skyrocketed during the last 30 years I've been hunting on leases.

[Kevin Dill]

Leasing by itself is not capable of making hunting "worse" or "better" as a whole. It changes the dynamics of getting access to hunting land. Some will like the new dynamic and some won't. Some will dislike it enough to quit hunting. So be it. I'm just as certain there are guys who lease property that could or would not hunt without their lease property. Some guys will pronounce leasing as "the death of our sport", but that is simply emotionally-charged rhetoric. Hunting isn't dying...despite the alarmist talk.

Very little about our sport is the same as it was 50 years ago. It is evolving and changing constantly. Landowners have discovered their lands have value in ways not previously considered...like hunting access. It's 100% the landowner's call, too. He is the master and hunters must do as he says, or not hunt there. For the life of me, I can't see anyone putting a hunter's rights above a private landowner's rights.

If a guy has a private lake and keeps it in great condition, does he not have a right to charge someone money to fish in it? Some will pay and some will walk. Either way, the opportunity remains.

As a private landowner, I am 100% for a landowner's right to decide how his land is used. I don't lease mine, but I'm okay with my neighbor leasing his.

[Gray Buffalo]

It takes the guy's and gal's that don't have a bunch of cash out of the picture. I don't care for it but it life. I'll live with it and hunt pubilc land.

[greg fields]

I won't say I'd never get on a lease, but I lost many good spots, to so called big shots who thought they could buy there way in and keep the middle class out.  I'm against them, but also agree that a landowner can do whatever he wants with it and if I'd be in his position, I might lease it too.

[Horner]

I have really changed my mind on leasing over this past year.  I don't like the idea of leases, but if I had a big chunk of land you can better believe that I would be choosy of who I let on it to hunt.

I hunt public land except for a small 40 acre farm that belongs to my father-in-law.

Bottom line is,,,,,if you love to hunt you find away to do it.

To answer the question, I think leasing is making public hunting areas over crowded.

[crotch horn]

I will always do what I need to to keep hunting. I hunt private & public land. IMHO the industry is changing for the worse. Hunting is becoming more & more of a rich mans game. That is not a good thing as far as I can see. That being said I agree the landowners can do what they like. Leases create cash so it is here to stay. How it effects the herd health and such will play out over the next block of time.

[Don Batten]

If I had to only hunt public land here in eastern NC, I'd buy a bass boat and quit hunting. The hunting dogs are pain enough on private land. I guess dogs can't read posted signs. Don

[HUNT 24/7]

Leasing ruins it for the blue collar guy`s, especially in waterfowl hunting. I`m glad it`s not a problem up here..........yet

[acadian archer]

leasing will eventually reduce the number of young people hunting. This is not a good thing as we hunters will, in the future, be more marginalized and as bowhunters even more.
enjoy it while you can

[jcar315]

Well said Kevin Dill.

It is a very simple cost benefit analysis: either you value hunting enough to pay something for it, you hunt public land, or you quit hunting.

Leasing land is the only way I could hunt where I live. The notion of having the $ to buy my own farm here? Never going to happen. Coming up with a few hundred dollars a year to lease land??? Easy to do relative to buying land. It is nice to know that I will be the only person hunting the farm each and every time I show up to hunt.

I value hunting enough to pay something for it. I could not afford to pay "big money" for a lease but landowners have made an investment in their land and if I want to hunt there why not pay? When I lease land I have placed a value on the act of hunting there and the owner has too. He won't just say "yes" to any person who just walks up and knocks on the door. He values the money and I value the access to private land.

Quit hunting because somehow I am "against leasing" or "I shouldn't have to pay to hunt?" That is a line of thinking that I just don't understand.

[Bowwild]

Leasing is becoming a more common occurence here in KY than it was just a few years ago.  The going rate now, depending upon how close to big cities you are, is about $10-15/acre.

I had never leased land and had always hunted private (someone else's) land all my 45 years of bowhunting. However, this year I had to lease the area I've hunted for the past 8 years or lose it to some folks at a body shop who were courting "my" landowner. While I hated to cough up the price of a Schafer ($1,500)I couldn't lose this hunting property because it is right behind my house.

Frankly, while the cash outlay was extreme I have to say I'm feeling pretty good about it. 1). I don't have to go looking for a new place to hunt. 2). I have much more control over the property -- only my son and I may hunt it and we can hunt anything during any legal season we want. Before I had to stop hunting when the gun season opened, I couldn't hunt turkeys or squirrels, and I never knew until a few months before each season if I would be welcomed back.

Lucky for me, 4-5 years ago I couldn't have afforded to do this.

[Bowwild]

buckeye,
I forgot to answer your question. Typically leasing leads to fewer total recreation days for hunters.  A typical property before leasing will have more hunters than after it is leased.  The property will often have fewer deer, especially does taken off it after a lease starts.

So from a management standpoint of providing maximum hunter recreation days and ample doe harvest, many leases lower both which isn't a good thing.  Its good for the hunters who can afford the lease. If you can't though you have to give it up, hunt public land which is very rare in some states, or drive long distances (hunt less).  I remember a time in 1991 when I lived in Kansas I spent a month in early summer visiting farms in my area. I went to 15 different properties and was turned down to hunt every one of them. While I don't remember for sure how many, most (12+) were leased -- some by birdhunters who didn't want any deer hunting on the property.

[rascal]

Never had the need to lease land when I was growing up, at least not for cash.  I always saved some choice cuts for the land owner, helped mend a fence, picked up trash, cut some wood... really anything I could do to show my appreciation.  Mostly I just respected the land and the land owner which always just seemed like the way things oughta be.  Unfortunately I was in the minority in my habits and my mentality and land owners began to change in response to changes in the people who asked permission (and sometimes people who didnt ask) to hunt and use the land.  I can tell you if you take a rifle onto some old boys property during deer season and later he find 5 holes in his combine or several holes through a pile of irrigation pipe hes gonna shut the place down, its just cheaper to not let anyone hunt.  If the land owner comes up with a flat on his tractor and it turns out its a hunting arrow you can bet hes gonna shut you down next time.  Cant tell you how many times Ive heard the story of trespassers, poachers, multiple unrecovered big game animal carcasses, hardware left in trees, cut fences, lawsuits brought against a landowner for an accident that occured on his land... the list goes on and on really.  

Now enter some desperate to hunt decent sort of guy whos had the door slammed in his face one too many times who feels like he would do just about anything legal to gain access to good property and you have a land owner thinking this just may work.  Now you as the hunter have a financial stake in this as well as the land owner, you are gonna help him keep his land (your lease) free of trespassers, certianly you will think twice before you toss your garbage out on his land (your lease) and a multitude of other beneficial actions take form over the course of your business transactions.  If the land is good you will come back year after year, the land owner knows what to expect of his tenant, he knows who to call if there is a problem and you know what to expect for your money.

Im not rich, Im just a regular blue collar guy, I dont own several custom bows, I dont have endorsements to hunt... I have a lease and I will do what it takes to hunt.  Regionally here in Iowa I think the concept of leasing is only just catching on but rest assured it will continue to be a growing trend as land owners continue to find ways to maximize profits from their holdings and slobs continue to behave poorly while posing as hunters.  It only takes one bad experience to convince a land owner to stop being generous for free.

I think maybe the other side of the dual sided knife that is your question might be how have hunters and sometimes their bad behavior affected the land leasing industry?

[Kevin Dill]

..."your question might be how have hunters and sometimes their bad behavior affected the land leasing industry?"

That's maybe one of the smartest comments I've ever read.

[AdamH]

I talked to a fella from Illinois who lost about 2000 Acres to Cabelas & their TV Producers, wasn't his land, but land he's hunted since childhood, Alot of what ya watch with these "Hunting Shows" today {no I don't watch them} and with some of the People Posing on the front cover of their Catalogs, Yeah, it hurts the ones with little $$ I doubt there are many on this Site or even small groups of individuals that we all know with that kind of $$$$$ ...