Shameful situation in NE

[Wary Buck]

With the PA/TX and NRA/Nugent actions of late, we knew the crossbow issue would be coming to NE as our state's DNR is just becoming more and more a prostitute to money and completely disregarding biology, tradition, and public opinion.  And respect for the resource is going out the window as well.

I'm now VP of the Nebr Bowh Assn and we saw this issue coming and the Nebr Game and Parks Commission told us this spring/summer the issue would be addressed in 2011 as kind of heads up, but that we didn't need to be worried. We told them we'd do a survey of members and get them some information, etc. Then this past October, they pulled a sleight of hand, got it on the fast-track agenda. We tried to react, had lots of great testimony, etc., but the Commissioners already had their minds made up, called bowhunters selfish (they get this directly from the NGPC which has little or no higher-ups with any passion or love for bowhunting), and passed it 6-3.


Phone calls to Commissioners often resulted in us getting our butts chewed instead of them listening to input from constituents. Of course, that's part of the problem. They are beyond our reach as they are appointed positions by the Governor, usually political party big-wigs and power players. I don't really know the roots of the old phrase "something's rotten in Denmark" but it applies to Lincoln, Nebraska.

Get this, the impetus for the change? Apparently one guy couldn't get a crossbow allowance for handicapped, complained to his state senator, who complained to NGPC and a commissioner, and voila...

Right now our NGPC is running scared of our Unicameral (one-house legislature), which is micro-managing everything. And the NGPC reacts this way on lots of stuff to a few complaints even though in this case they have a 1000-member organization vocally opposed and committed against crossbows in archery season. An organization which has supported the NGPC financially on many projects, and basically ramrods the bowhunter education program here, not to mention helps in a huge way with Archery in the Schools and mentored hunts, and....

We were flat out misled and lied to. If I pulled this kind of crap at my public job, I'd likely be fired and probably should be. These guys just keep on keeping on. We have a board meeting in a week or so and it will be interesting to see where we go from here. We may have reached a point where we publicly denounce the NGPC and pull our support on everything until there are changes. But just wanted to share this absolutely rotten news with you. Sorry guys. Wish I could say we held the line, but the cards were stacked against us (kind of like the refereeing in the Texas A&M and Nebraska football game; but that's another topic!).

Reading some other related topics on this site, our organization's opposition to the crossbow is largely based on this.  There is NO grass-roots groundswell of support from people in NE wanting the crossbow; mostly just a handful of opportunists who covet the early/long bowhunting season but are not willing (or able) to learn to shoot a bow.  They claim to be left out, when in reality, bow seasons have ALWAYS been open to anyone wanting to actually learn a new skill and work at it.  That's the problem, these are gunners who want the early and late season but can't or refuse to learn a new skill.  

Interesting enough, I was once the same.  I was 19 years old, wanted something to do while waiting for waterfowl season to open up, and thought rifle season was a little crazy/short and the rifle itself was a little too easy.  I wanted more time to hunt, so guess what I did:  I learned to shoot a bow and arrow.  And instantly was admitted to the game.  The problem is now that opportunists in all areas of life want the bar lowered for them, and this is no different.  

Oh, and we can't forget the people who stand to make a buck off our bowhunting by twisting it to suit their pocketbook.  I believe BOWhunters should define what bowhunting equipment should look like.  Not politicos, or whiners.  And here's the kicker:  what two segments of hunting are HEALTHY right now?  Bowhunting and Turkey hunting.  So why they want to mess with a good thing, I'll never understand.

And the way the NGPC pulled this off was absolutely dishonest.

[rascal]

Unfortunately with shrinking hunter numbers and tag fees that are at about maximum tolerable limits state game agencies across the country are scrambling for a way to boost revenue.  Combine that with significant pressure from manufacturers organizations and sportsmen who currently do not wish to learn to use the equipment but want to take advantage of the generous season afforded bowhunters and its all but a slam dunk to be enacted.  Fact is probably more than half of the hunter friendly organizations out there were probably in support of the "expanded opportunities" that this offers sportsmen.

Its easy to make this look attractive to legislative sorts with no real stock in the issue.  New people participating in the hunt, more license sales, additional revenue from the taxes collected on all the new gear.  There were probably many many sportsmen and women that were in favor of this as well, as you stated its an easy transition from gun to x-bow.

Im not in support of inclucing x-bows in the archery season, no more than I would support full draw devices on compounds but Im probably in the minority.  Trad hunters choose to do what 99% of hunters would never even consider... We choose to handicap ourselves by our gear choices.  Although honestly I never feel handicapped most other people are looking for some gimmic that will make them a better hunter and by better hunter I mean help them score more often.  They want more range (more range = more shot opportunities) more speed (flatter trajectory eliminates the need to judge distance) and so on.  

It would be nice to think this is just a new craze that will pass in time but I doubt that very much and as each new state subscribes to this idea it makes it all that much easier for other states to fall in line and claim it is the new "norm".  Personally I would rather see states legalize them for everyone but rather than including them in the archery season put them where they should be, in the firearms season.

[owlbait]

The guys in Ohio just love their crossbow season and can't understand why you would complain. Their hunters are ethical and you can't argue about their success in growing big bucks! You would find more support however from the Michigan Traditional archery clan, however, it wouldn't be worth much, we had the crossbows backdoored on us this year. Money, politics, easy, etc. Plus how do you turn down charismatic reps like Ted Nugent?

[bad arrow]

Notice too the crossbow people are taking away and replacing common terminology that distinguishes it from a bow. Now they're saying "arrow" instead  of "bolt"! .....Phil

[Ray Hammond]

That's the pattern in EVERY state. Politicians are 'whores' - whores for power, whores for money, whores for influence.

They pat one another on the back, watch out for each other, include each other in scummy deals to get more of those at every opportunity.

I've met very few I'd say were 'statesmen'.

The only thing they care about is staying on teh gravy train.

You're getting crossbows, my man...count on it.

In the end, when the people who think its a shortcut find out its not, you'll see tons of them in the pawn shops across your state... until then, watch your back when going in and out of the woods.

[toehead]

I feel your pain, Oklahoma passed the Crossbow legislation in an emergency session this summer....two representatives is all it took to change Oklahoma's bowseason for ever.  I made phone call after phone call to legislature as well as did everyone I could convince to do the same, no avail.  We have an Oklahoma Bowhunting Council that stood by silent and did NOTHING to prevent this (the president has a bowshop that sales crossbows...hmmmm).  BIG BIG Crossbow sales for the BPS in OKC though.

[toehead]

One more little caveat....people said "crossbows won't make any difference"  Well oklahoma had the second annual Bear season, 20 bear quota, everyone has to call in at the end of the day to see how many are left for day two, started Friday Oct. 1st...
Remember 20 bear quota,
33 bears were killed on Friday Oct. 1st closing down the season, 22 were killed with Crossbows.
Last year they killed 19 bears and it went into Black Powder season....

You had to buy a 100 dollar tag before Oct. 1 to hunt bears...how many guys do you think had to work Friday and ended up eating $100 tag?  How many bears were poached by people who worked bait sites all summer and didn't get to hunt Friday?  I don't know but that right there is an illustration of how "effective" crossbows are.

Makes me sick.

[Buckeye Trad Hunter]

Sorry that I offended some people with the facts the last time I posted on this issue.  Toehead, how would you feel if 22 of the 33 bears had been taken with traditional gear and the crossbow hunters were calling for an end to your season?  Would you feel that we should limit how many people could use trad gear then?  Maybe this was just a good year for bear?  I would be very upset too if I had to eat a $100 tag.  I just don't understand why people get so torn up over what someone else hunts with.  Is it because they kill too many animals?  If so you're only supporting their argument of their effectiveness.  Is it because you think all crossbow hunters are lazy slobs?  A slob is a slob no matter what weapon you give them.  Maybe they don't have enough time to practice with a stickbow.  In that case you should commend them for using a weapon that they are proficient with, not condem them.  I'm not trying to make anyone mad and Owlbait, I apologize for ruffling your feathers last time, but everyone needs to look at the reality of the situation and realise that there is no way to win this fight.  It , like everything else is all about the money and every argument you try to make will be turned against you and could in reality have stickbows banned from bowseason.  We're only pennies in a billion dollar industry and no one likes it when you reach in their purse.

[toehead]

Its not archery period....fact

[owlbait]

No ruffled feathers here, just like to poke at ya! I'm hurt here in Michigan that my beloved Archery season has been sold away. I think crossbows had a place in Michigan but their money bought them a place during my season. I think they have hurt the Archery (Modern) industry in Michigan but the retalers won't realize for a couple more years, and I do not think they recruit more youth to hunting. But, time will tell. Hopefully, they don't disarm Traditional Archery in the process.

[Buckeye Trad Hunter]

Originally posted by toehead:
Its not archery period....fact

Just to clarify, I don't disagree, but I'm afraid that we're in a situation where we may be a little better off to just set back and ride along so as not to lobby ourselves out of existense.  Remember, when archery season originally began gun hunters didn't want us in their season either and some of their same arguments may come back to haunt us, trad bowhunters, specifically.

[toehead]

I think if we sit idely by and "ride along" then there will be no stop to the elimination of archery only seasons...where do we draw the line?  arrow guns?  tranquilizer guns like the WHA?

[maxwell]

Cross bows are weapons of war.....  It's not archery.....

[SEMO_HUNTER]

Even if they made crossbows legal to use during the archery portion of deer season here in Missouri, I still wouldn't use one. I hate them, they are heavy, noisy, cumbersome to carry around, and just a general pain in the arse. My dad uses one, but he's disabled and I can tell you for sure that he won't hurt the deer population with his limited mobility. He's killed one doe in 3 years with it.
To me that's what the crossbow was meant to be for.......disabled people who always did hunt the archery season with normal tackle, but have lost the ability to draw a bow anymore and still wish to keep their spirits alive by means of crossbow.

For anybody else of able mind and body it's a cop out pure and simple. It's an easy fix for somebody who doesn't care about the sport of archery, but simply wants to kill more animals.......that's greed. Just as well too because that's what fuels the politicians to go forth with such changes.....greed. If there wasn't something in it for them they wouldn't even bother.

It's sad to say the least and I'm surprized that my own home state hasn't done the same thing, because as Bryce and Ray have already stated, I think my state conservation department is also headed down the road of prostitution to gain tax and permit dollars. I hate to even make that assumption, but the signs are all there.

When tradition, skill, woodsmanship, and excellence take a back seat to questionable ethics in sound game management, and the almighty dollar it's a sad state of affairs. To say the least.....it just makes me sick to my stomach to see it happen. Thus that is the world in which we live.

[Buckeye Trad Hunter]

Originally posted by SEMO_HUNTER:
Even if they made crossbows legal to use during the archery portion of deer season here in Missouri, I still wouldn't use one. I hate them, they are heavy, noisy, cumbersome to carry around, and just a general pain in the arse. My dad uses one, but he's disabled and I can tell you for sure that he won't hurt the deer population with his limited mobility. He's killed one doe in 3 years with it.
To me that's what the crossbow was meant to be for.......disabled people who always did hunt the archery season with normal tackle, but have lost the ability to draw a bow anymore and still wish to keep their spirits alive by means of crossbow.

For anybody else of able mind and body it's a cop out pure and simple. It's an easy fix for somebody who doesn't care about the sport of archery, but simply wants to kill more animals.......that's greed. Just as well too because that's what fuels the politicians to go forth with such changes.....greed. If there wasn't something in it for them they wouldn't even bother.

It's sad to say the least and I'm surprized that my own home state hasn't done the same thing, because as Bryce and Ray have already stated, I think my state conservation department is also headed down the road of prostitution to gain tax and permit dollars. I hate to even make that assumption, but the signs are all there.

When tradition, skill, woodsmanship, and excellence take a back seat to questionable ethics in sound game management, and the almighty dollar it's a sad state of affairs. To say the least.....it just makes me sick to my stomach to see it happen. Thus that is the world in which we live.

This is really how I feel about it.  I am in the same situation, I defend the issue because my father is one who uses a crossbow because he is unable to bow hunt now.  The crossbow has been legal in Ohio for longer than I can remember and it hasn't brought the foretold gloom and doom that everyone thinks it will.  I know it doesn't make it any easier to swallow.

[Ray Hammond]

And on top of all that, your conservation department is probably like OURS- they're the whipping boys of the state assembly.

Every year their budget gets smaller and smaller- and there's more work for them to do with less people and less funding.

They're looking for any way to increase their budgets and license fees are the best way for them.

Example- There are mountain lions in GA- they've got some kills and videos and trail cam pics that are indisputably lions- but they cannot admit they're here or by law they have to manage them.

That would mean MORE money has to be used for something they can't afford- and something else gets defunded- like stopping people from drinking and driving boats on our waterways or leasing public hunting grounds or you name it.

Every year politicians fritter away millions in every jurisdiction on the stupidest things- bridges to nowhere- money to a college to study why pig poop smells so bad- a museum of cow flops in the shape of our Presidents' heads- it's all good, right??

These guys need trucks to drive, money to put gas in them....the government is taking it away from them year after year- they're scrambling to find ways to keep their jobs, keep us safe in the woods and waters, and I don't blame them for what's happening either.

[Wary Buck]

Those of you who have mentioned the legislators role in this are right.  In Nebraska, we've got legislators who hear one complaint from one landowner (voter) and they fall all over themselves trying to introduce legislation that in my mind usurps the professionals in wildlife biology.

Unfortunately, those professional policy makers in Game and Parks have not been acting very professionally in this state for a number of years, undermining their own biologists and disrespecting the resources while turning their backs on their constituent/user groups while doing anything for the almighty dollar and trying to appease the over-reaching state legislature.  It's quite a cluster we've got going on right now.  And they've been making so many changes the last 10 years--all the while they've been keeping minimal stats.  Thus they don't have any evidence of what changes work/don't work, or even any kind of statistics to really build useful data to begin with.  I'm just sick about the whole thing, and the future of our Game and Parks.

[ermont]

I really feel your pain. Our Game commission here in New Mexico is also appointed by the governor. They are the most corrupt group of SOB's I know of. Getting a license to hunt elk or deer in this state is akin to winning the lotto. We have not had the crossbow issue hit our state yet, but I am sure a little lobbying from some of our more wealthy outfitters will get it passed in no time.

[Fischman]

Hey WaryBuck, ya its a shameful situation here in Nebraska is right! I agree, how long before the Neb Bowhunters and every other orgs quit supporting NGPC for kicking us bowhunters in the butt every time someone whines about seasons! Big money-Outfitters out west here are having a big impact on their decision  making. Tonite (dec-8) there is a meeting with commish J.Burke at curtis,Ne. Question and answer! May be Interesting- I'll let you all know!

[684Kevin]

In Ohio, even though crossbows are permitted, I have yet to see one being carried by an adult for 5 plus years.  I know they are out there being used but the numbers compared to compound bow users are very slim.  I do know of a couple youngsters less than 12 years old that use them due to the fact that they lack the skill/ability to shoot a bow over the states 40 lb minimum.  My father of 70 plus years old even mentioned to me one time that he thought he may enjoy sitting in a ground blind with a crossbow someday so he can continue to be in the outdoors.  I know that the crossbow will add another dimension to your archery season but it will probably have very little of an impact.  The serious bowhunters aren't going to switch from their current equipment to a crossbow nor will one who strives to have the most lethal/accurate archery weapon going to be using a crossbow.  From what I have seen, at least in my area, the crossbows are used by those who want to enjoy the bow hunting experience maybe for a very few days of the season.  They typically are not too serious about bowhunting, hence using a crossbow, and do not spend too much time preparing/scouting/tree stand hanging, etc. to be a very sucessful cross-bowhunter.  The people I have known to have used them, either don't use them anymore by switching to  compound/traditional equipment or dont even hunt the archery season anymore.