Indiana CROSSBOW proposals

[meathead]

http://www.in.gov/nrc/2377.htm

They are still taking comments folks.

[RM81]

Left a comment.  I hate that Ohio allows crossbows during archery season.  I'm not against the use of a crossbow to hunt with, but I am against the use of it during archery season.

[spider1]

Well guys, I'm sorry to say, it really doesn't matter how hard you fight it, it is going to happen. We in PA fought it as hard as we could but it was hopeless. Money talks and the crossbow manufacturers had the money. We had our Game Commission about to reverse their decision to allow crossbows but the legislators told them that either they (the PGC) pass full inclusion state wide or the legislation would pass a ruling to change the definition of a bow to include crossbows. This would have effectively taken any regulation of crossbows out of the hands of the game commission. It would have made crossbows legal at any time bows are legal. The PGC had no choice.

And as far as having people from other states weighing in on this issue by pressuring your legislators... that's nothing! In this state we had the NRA and Ted Nugent lobbying our legislators as well as people form other countries. That's right, the crossbow folks asked crossbow owners on their websites from all over the world to contact our legislators and pressure them to pass full inclusion.

I wish you all the best of luck, but from what I've seen in the way this group works, it's a done deal.

[b.glass]

Added my thoughts as well.

I wouldn't have known about this if I hadn't gotten a e-mail from someone where I enter a drawing to hunt at every year.

I don't come to this forum as much as I should but I came tonight to see if I could get more info. Can we get this word out to more of us, say on pow-wow without getting in trouble?

[b.glass]

Also, it may be a "done deal" but it's not like me to roll over and play dead. I'm goin' down swing'n!

[b.glass]

Meetings are going to be held to discuss the proposal. 6pm (EDT)

Monday July 25th at:

Spring Mill Inn, Spring Mill State Park
3333 St. Rd. 60 East
Mitchell, IN 47446

Tuesday July 26th at:

Community Building
Maimi Co. Fairgrounds
1029 W. 200 N.
Peru, IN 46970

[adkarcher]

Keep up the fight.  They keep trying to get it into the archery season and were very close here in NY last year.  Ended up in the gun season and late muzzleloader season, with a 2 year sunset clause. Snuck it in the last hour of the last session in a commitee that rarely sees that type of stuff, but typical NY politics.   Closest in years, I am sure it will be a big battle again next year.

[Kentucky Jeff]

I'm not threatened by crossbow hunters. My point of view is we need more hunters of all stripes not less.  The demographics of sport hunting are NOT in our favor people....  You can argue methods and seasons until you are blue in the face.  But you can't argue with the FACT that the numbers of hunters in the field is plumetting as a percentage of the population.  So in my opinion we need MORE hunters regardless of their chosen method.  

I know in KY we could benefit from an expanded crossbow season especially if they made it an antlerless only season.   Our herd is badly out of balance with a 10-1 doe to buck ratio that desperately needs to be brougt down to a more manageable 5 or 6 to 1 and better yet 3-1.  The quantity of deer would suffer from this in the short term but the QUALITY of the deer would improve as would the overall health of the herd.

We need to get over the parochial view that only this manner of hunting is acceptable and also realize that game management is not a zero sum gain.   Short term, year-to-year fluctuations in populations based on game management decisions, legal methods, and season length are all part of the ebb and flow of ANY hunting program--ducks, deer, bears, elk etc...  Did you ever stop to think that crossbow hunting could actually make your sport better?    Perhaps it draws more people into archery?   I know from personal experience that my journey into other hunting and shooting activities were always as a result of having done something similar.  I went from modern guns to flintlocks.  I went from trad archery, to wheel bows, and back to trad archery.  

Bottom line is we need more hunters.  I could give a crap if the guy doesn't have the time or inclination to pull a stickbow.  We need more hunters.  While you may not think they are "the right kind of hunters" I say this is a free country and you should mind your own dadgummed business!   Because they can turn your argument against crossbows against YOU and make the case that you are shooting less accurate equipment that results in a less humane kill and more wounded animals!  There are two sides to every coin so before you think you own the high ground you better look at the surrounding terrain!

Anti-hunters LOVE it when we get in these inane domestic quarrels.  It makes their mission so much easier.  Not only does the cliche of a house divided apply but many of the arguments we use against our fellow sportsmen are turned against us!  

So again, we need more hunters not less.  Few people just jump into the sport of traditional archery.  Like wine its mostly an acquired taste and there are a lot of people who don't like wine!  

Just my .02 and I'm sure some will disagree.

[b.glass]

I'm not against crossbows per say I just don't think they belong in bow season.

[dnovo]

The thing mowt people miss in this discussion is that we are not gaining more hunters by allowing crossbows. We are just having crossover hunters from the rifle ranks that think the bowhunters kill all the big bucks before gun season, and they are the same ones not willing to put in the time to learn to bowhunt, but they want in our season. Anything with a stock,trigger, scope and a bolt instead of an arrow is not a bow and doesn't belong in BOW season. Use it all you want in the proper season.

[Kentucky Jeff]

Perhaps they should have a special early crossbow season in August?

[ChuckC]

KY Jeff. . .  I happen to disagree.  we don't need more hunters.  got too many already, and the hunter of today, for quite the most part, is not what I personally look up to and feel proud of.
The vast majority are not at all like me.  They all want it easy, they want it now,  they want it to make them famous and they don't think that earning something is for them.

Nope. .  I can do with losing about half.
ChuckC

[Kentucky Jeff]

Chuck,
   If you take that attitude you are done.  Sport hunting will be outlawed.  We will have half the political support we have now and we will loose every political battle we must fight.  

I get what you are saying.  But its not the crowd I hang with.  I am a member of a couple of three hunting clubs with maybe 25 people in my duck club, 7 people in my deer lease and 45 families in my foxhunting club and I have to say that sportsmanship is excellent in all three cases.  Sure we have a bad apple or two.  You deal with people you are gonna get that.  

But if you look at the demographics of the hunting population and society's view of hunters in general and we have a very hard road ahead of us as it is....

Its up to us all to make our sport better.

[T Lail]

we LOST last year here in NC.....cannot understand how a crossgun ever got into archery season....money talks and crap walks, at least it did in this state....replied and spoke my feelings for you......fight it HARD.....

[b.glass]

Sport hunting will never be outlawed, there's too much money to be made.

Thank you T Lail!

Bona

[tecum-tha]

The local archery club guys did not even know about those proposals, until I told them yesterday at their shoot. People are completely unaware what happens around them. Pretty sad.
If that stupid crossbow law goes into effect, I will probably give back my "hunting education instructor" card. I will not teach people about lousy "wannabe" archery equipment. I will hunt more down south (TN in particular), where the DNR does a decent job. I will spend my license dollars somewhere else. All the additional "license" sales numbers will be without me. I have already seen a few of the potential crossbow hunters in our local sporting goods store. I don't plan to share the field with them in early archery season.

[SlowBowke]

I sent my opinon, as I did the first time this came about. I stay on top of this with another site from IN.

With Ohio having "successfully" using crossbows for some 30 years it was only a matter of time before this raised it's head here.

I'm only guessing, but dont think THAT many will jump onto that bandwagon with the liberal gun laws and tags here.

Of course there will be SOME but feel most who bowhunt will stick to bows regardless of their preference of type.

I agree it IS a great deal about MONEY. With the state wanting more deer shot (that isnt going to go away) they have found a way to supposedly get more hunters in the field and....AND create yet another license to sell for more money from the increase of total sales of tags.

The state has offered several variations of season lengths with what they say is TO shoot more deer. That met defeat due to the fact that it effected the 80 percent or so of the total hunters whom gun hunt raising their voice that they would QUIT and not buy ANY tags for such a short season. (how a short season was going to produce more deer shot.....none of us understood). That would hit the state's pocketbook way too hard and the idea was tossed.

Additional doe seasons and the crossbow addition is a change a great many of us wont like but when it comes to more tags sold......they could care less what we think IMHO.

What we "want" and what "they" think is "best" for the herd will never be on the same page...or universe when they insist we have too many deer and hunters do not agree.

While it is good they ASK our opinion, history has shown us for decades and decades that the final decision will not be TOTALLY made from the opinion of hunters UNLESS the state is convinced they are going to LOSE hunters whom buy tags. That was exactly the case in the proposed shortened gun season....the majority spoke loud and clear. With the bulk of the deer numbers taken by gun hunters, their voice is much louder than ours. Just a sad fact.


We are therefore our own worse enemies because most of us are GOING TO hunt, regardless, just as we have in the past and do not have the resources to go elsewhere.

Numbers of tags and the cost of such, plus when they are used meets a huge conflict amoungst all of us. Invariably, it wont be US that decides but again, I'm glad to have at least a voice.


With the numbers of hunters growing and the places TO hunt without a fee dwindling, the future is bleak IMHO for generations to come.

There are simply too many people and only so much land.

In time that will eat up many present day activities as the US population grows.

My MAIN dislike of a crossbow season IS the fact that (even though I dont feel it will be a huge percentage) it will indeed, increase the number of hunters afield that is out of hand already in my locality.

just my 2 cents.
God Bless

[b.glass]

I have seen a heard of alot of hostility between hunters over "protecting" hunting ground from other hunters intruding. Stands stolen, trespassing...and we need more of that?! That's what we will have from people who don't have the inclination to shoot a bow but since a xbow is more like a gun..... This is what my peaceful bow season is going to turn into.

[SlowBowke]

The scuttlebutt passed on to me is that the "decision" will be made towards the end of September.

As I understand it the regs will not be effect till 2012, unless I missed something?

God Bless

[ChuckC]

Long Speech here. . .  run. .

I have been doing this for a long time,  I have seen a lot of changes.  I have also thought long and hard about this numbers game.  

You know what.  I think we are pretty much fooling ourselves.

If they stop hunting, inside of two years nobody will have bushes or a garden and there will be no understory in most of the forests.  Then the crops will be further damaged and there will be many more deer / car accidents.  Then, big business will step in and demand hunting to thin the herd. Big business runs the world, not us peons.

Too many deer ?. . make the season longer, relax some of the stupid rules.  There are other ways that have never been tried.


I think there are too many hunters out there now and about half of them are not the folks I would want to share a camp with.  I am about this close to being disgusted by the "normal" hunter activities lately and I think others are too.  

Quite a number of them have come in to the field because of videos and magazines, they have become instant hunters.  They have no clue, but they are holding out for a Booner.  

I think numbers are important to a point. .  but if those numbers don't vote,  if they don't voice out to the proper authorities when they need to,  if they don't become active to help each other and the sport, what good are they ?  

We have a spring hearing in WI each year.  It is a way to bring up new rules, or old rules, to provide public input on things that affect us. It is important.

I can tell you this. .   W A Y more don't show up than do.  It is one night of the year. . .  and they made it easy now.  It used to be we would be up till after midnight, voting and voicing out.  Now you can show up,  stay for an hour to vote for new counsel, then turn in a completed ballot and leave to go out with the buds.  They still don't show.  

My point of view. .  go away, there are too many in the woods now.  

Why do they need a crossbow ?  Cause it is cool, and cause someone (industry)conned them into "needing it" and mostly. .  because it is easy (we already have rules allowing use by older or disabled folks, as does probably every other state).  Nope. .  it is easy, and that is where it is at.  

It is a gun.  It gets the gun hunters into the woods to get "their" buck before the dang bowhunters kill them all off.  It also allows them to do it just like when they gun hunt. .  sight it in,  shoot three bullets a year to make sure it is still sighted in, then go out and get them deer.

Nope. .  I totally disagree that we need more numbers.

I do believe we need to straighten out our act.
ChuckC