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Author Topic: Crossbow bill in Illinois  (Read 5822 times)

Offline bjansen

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Crossbow bill in Illinois
« on: April 17, 2012, 09:49:00 PM »
Bowhunters,

Illinois HB 4819 is a bill that unanimously passed the house on 3/29/12 and has moved to Senate. This bill removes the crossbow limiting language which currently exists in the Illinois Wildlife Code (the current language limits the use of a crossbow to those over 62 and those that are handicapped), and thus the passing of this bill will allow crossbows in the IL open archery season.

The bill was scheduled for a first reading at the Senate today and picked up a Senate Sponsor.  

Please contact your IL senator or the Senate sponsor and express your point of view. A link to the bill is below - Thanks for your help.

 http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus.asp?DocNum=4819&GAID=11&GA=97&DocTypeID=HB&LegID=64694&SessionID=84

Offline Mojostick

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Re: Crossbow bill in Illinois
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2012, 09:45:00 AM »
This is just a suggestion, so take it as only that.

Keep the words "unanimously passed the house" in the front of your mind.

As someone from Michigan who went thru the whole battle a few years back, everyone must understand that xbows being in "regular archery seasons" is going to happen in all the populated, big deer states east of the Mississippi. If not now, it will happen over the next decade.

Fighting xbows in the eastern states is like fighting technology in your daily life.

All of these states are facing the clear trend of fewer hunters, older hunters and large deer herds that could explode if we can't kill enough deer.

As the baby boomers all start getting to the "drop out of the sport due to physical problems stage" in the next decade, all states will scramble to retain any and all deer hunters.

But that doesn't mean all is a lost cause for you in Illinois.

In Michigan, the idea a few years back was to make a final, all or nothing last stand and the accept nothing but no xbows in the regular season.

The result? Michigan bowhunters got nothing and xbows victory was total and we got nothing extra to show for it.

In hindsight, what Michigan bowhunters should have done is said "OK, we'll give in on xbows in  bow season, but we want to add the full months of September and January to the season, thus adding 2 full months of bow season".

The reality is, on average, the xbow hunters aren't going to be as serious as traditional bowhunters. So if the xbow guys go out a few times in October-early November, you still pick up all of September and January to have basically to yourselves.

My point is, xbows are coming to Illinois. You can cross your arms and say "hell no!" and get nothing in the end or you can think of ways to get something of value from the situation.

Again, keep in mind the tsunami of "unanimously passed the house".

But act fast, before it's too late. The bowhunter groups should scramble to think of things to get in a "compromise", if there's even time for it now. They have little leverage time left, if your window of opportunity hasn't already closed.

That's merely my suggestion.

Offline bjansen

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Re: Crossbow bill in Illinois
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2012, 03:30:00 PM »
Thanks for the feedback,

The tsunami of "Unanimously passed the house" was a result of hiding the bill in an undescriptive name and synopsis.  It was unclear what the bill was and it was a tactic, I believe, used to moved the bill very fast without notice.  

Short Description:  WILDLIFE-TECH'

Synopsis As Introduced: Amends the Wildlife Code. Makes a technical change in a Section concerning the short title.

Offline meathead

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Re: Crossbow bill in Illinois
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2012, 03:48:00 PM »
Good luck.  Indiana lost this battle too.  They got their foot in the door by being first included in our late archery season.  It took a few years but this coming season they will be able to hunt with them during the entire archery season.

Online Al Dente

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Re: Crossbow bill in Illinois
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2012, 06:21:00 AM »
No one is coming out and saying "I am a crossbow hunter".  The manufacturers and the ATA (Archery Trade Association) have pushed for this.  They are the ones who stand to profit from it.  They are targeting the firearms hunters who wish to take advantage of the early archery seasons across the country, rather than have a natural progression of superior hunting implements.
They can say whatever they want about dwindling hunters' numbers, deer herd increases, and loss of state revenues.  But the reality is this, here in NY, archery license sales have been on a steady increase for over 5 years now, with an increase of close to 20%.  Second, we can only guess at the state of the deer herd, because our DEC has given the same number of deer, 1,000,000, for over a decade.  Some areas are loaded, others scarce.  Lastly, a new license would bring in money as well as some Pittman-Robinson excise tax dollars, but that's only if a new license is created.
The ultimate plan is to decimate the archery seasons with full crossbow inclusion thinking that it is the second coming.  It is not.  Look at Ohio, where the crossbow has been legal in the archery season for decades.  Crossbows kills outnumber bow kills 3 to 2.  And their firearms season is anywhere from 6-10 days.  Try explaining that to a firearms hunter who has had 4 weeks to hunt, paid a premium for a license, and due to work and family can only squeeze out a weekend or two.  This train must be derailed.
There are hundreds of YouTube videos showing the power and accuracy of the modern crossbow.  It simply is not a bow and not primitive in any way.  Regardless of how advanced a compound is, their is still no comparison.  Some perform better than most rifles at 100 yards!
  Good luck.  I feel your pain.
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Offline emt137

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Re: Crossbow bill in Illinois
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2012, 10:52:00 AM »
It doesn't surprise me this bill was "hidden".  The sad thing is, at least in my part of the state, a lot of guys just use a rifle anyway.  Doesn't matter what season it is.  I personally know of one fellow that freely admits to having killed over a dozen deer.  All taken illegally simply because he enjoys killing them.  

While I appreciate and encourage the protection of our natural resources and being good stewards of the blessings God has given us it seems here in Illinois there is no moderation and thought put into laws.  

This law will pass simply because people aren't aware of it, and of those that are there aren't enough to make a difference.
"For man only stays human by preserving large patches of simplicity in his life, while the tendency of many modern inventions...is to weaken his consciousness, dull his curiosity, and, in general, drive him nearer to the animals." -George Orwell

Offline Fletcher

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Re: Crossbow bill in Illinois
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2012, 09:14:00 PM »
Senator Forby has p[icked up this bill in the senate, but it is not a done deal.  Google will get you to his website and you can leave him a message there.  This bill has been very poorly handled from the start.  If you want to help, join the UBI, IBS and IFOR.  Good ole boy politics is alive and well in IL and these groups are working to keep things above board.  If just a small percentage of IL bowhunters would send a message, this would go away quickly.
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Offline bjansen

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Re: Crossbow bill in Illinois
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2012, 08:34:00 AM »
Excellent point Rick.  The fact is that there are plenty of us to make a difference and these bills have historically went away with a few loud voices.  

The bill will be going read during a committee hearing on Tueday May 1.  Thus calls to Forby's office on Monday & Tues morning as well as online opinion submittal on the day the bill will be called is the plan of action.  

Thanks everyone.

Offline jonsimoneau

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Re: Crossbow bill in Illinois
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2012, 05:38:00 PM »
I'm on it Rick.  Thank you for the link.

Offline T Lail

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Re: Crossbow bill in Illinois
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2012, 06:08:00 PM »
Fight it hard.....same thing happened to us in NC and many who I thought would help just curled up and said nothing.....next thing you know , boom, crossguns in the archery season.....  :dunno:
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Offline bjansen

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Re: Crossbow bill in Illinois
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2012, 08:07:00 PM »
The bill was called at the Committee today and did not pass.  Several of us from IL sportsmans groups attended and voiced our opposition to the bill.  Thank you to everyone who helped through this process.  I will say there are several key individuals in our state who put their heart and soul into issues like this and they make a big difference.  As we know the issue will come up again, please now consider now what you can do to help next time. Phone calls and letters help very much along with facts that support our arguements and please don't think it is over immediately when a key issue like this comes up.  We have seen time and time again that committees and legislators will listen to well reasoned judgement supported by facts.  

Thanks everyone

Offline Mojostick

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Re: Crossbow bill in Illinois
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2012, 09:27:00 AM »
Eventually it's going to pass. Consider yourselves lucky that you now can coordinate a god strategy for getting someone when they do get made legal.

Offline BeNoIt

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Re: Crossbow bill in Illinois
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2012, 09:38:00 AM »
To be plain and blunt here, I have a hard time saying no to crossbow hunters when the compound hunters are shooting as far and as fast in many cases as they are. Seems a bit hard to differentiate between the two to me. The only differentiation that I can make is that a compound requires more practice to be proficient but how do you define that in a law?

The press is on here in NY, not sure if it will happen but I'm guessing that it will. My hope is that there would be the opportunity to block out some weeks at the beginning and the end for non-mechanical archery, i.e. traditional if that day ever comes. I agree with all though, we need to be active in making sure that we do all that we can to ensure the future of archery.
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Offline bjansen

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Re: Crossbow bill in Illinois
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2012, 09:46:00 AM »
David, compounds are certaintly advanced and capable of longer ranges than what they used to be...but there is still a fair gap between a crossbow and that of a compound, additionally I do think that gap will get larger as crossbows continue to advance as they do not have some of the natural limitations of a hand held, hand drawn device.  I appreciate your insight.

Offline Mojostick

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Re: Crossbow bill in Illinois
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2012, 09:48:00 AM »
Benoit,
That's why eventually xbows will pass everywhere. Just look at the 2012 models of all the new compounds and all the stuff that goes with them. Have you seen the Cabela's "archery" catalogs? The difference between xbows and compounds now is almost nill. Both require a little movement, the compound shooter draws and holds for a minute before squeezing a rifle trigger and the xbow shooter must raise the stock to his cheek before squeezing a rifle trigger. In reality, there's hardly any difference anymore.

Offline Fletcher

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Re: Crossbow bill in Illinois
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2012, 05:34:00 PM »
One thing is for sure, if we let apathy overcome our distaste for the crossbow in archery season, the crossbow will come.  However, if we refuse to roll over and instead write our legislators, the crossbow can be kept out.

Thanks to the efforts of bjansen and others, this bill as written was stopped in committee yesterday.  There aren't that many people trying to cram the xbow into the archery seasons; it just takes us standing up to stop it.

It starts by joining and supporting your state bowhunting organization.  :readit:  

Rick Stillman
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Offline Mojostick

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Re: Crossbow bill in Illinois
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2012, 10:06:00 PM »
I used to own a sporting goods store in Michigan.
 The reality is, the majority of compound shooters are totally cool with xbows and have no problem with them. Xbows are coming.

It's only a minority of compound shooters and the traditional shooters that aren't fans. And sadly, traditional shooters are a very small minority. A vocal minority, but still small compared to the decked out, electrified majority that send arrows at deer who consider themselves "bowhunters".

Fight the good fight, but in the end, the tsunami of majority approval, aging hunters, large deer herds, legislators looking to keep hunter numbers up and cash strapped DNR's will win out.

Offline bjansen

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Re: Crossbow bill in Illinois
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2012, 07:48:00 AM »
The reality is that the majority of IL bowhunters and IL firearm hunters have a problem with crossbow inclusion in archery season / firearm season in our state. Maybe your state is different Mojo, but the IL hunter survey data indicates sportsman are not cool with them.  

Thanks

Offline Mojostick

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Re: Crossbow bill in Illinois
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2012, 09:38:00 AM »
Look, I'm not trying to defend xbows in any way. I'm merely suggesting that you prepare to at least get some lemonaid from the coming lemons. I'm just saying what happened in Michigan and other states and it's happening to you folks too, right before our eyes. You may not see it because you're so close to it. But having gone thru it, Illinois traditional bowhunters are getting swept into the same trap.

It's like watching the film of an old game we lost over and over.

In Michigan, the majority of input thru emails, phone calls and public speaking at meetings to MDNR, the NRC and to legislators was that hunters, especially older hunters, liked the idea of the xbow option. Not a big majority, but a slight majority is still a majority.

The moral highground of "an xbow is not a bow" is irrelevant to the debate. We tried that here in Michigan too.

State DNR's and legislatures will only look at if a regulation change negatively impacts the resource in a noticable way. It they believe there's no downside to the resource to a change, they'll make it, especially if it increases participation.

So far, the only stance we have is "I don't like xbows, I don't want xbow hunters in bow season, an xbow isn't a bow, etc, etc".

All I'm saying is, while those arguments are noble and totally true, it's running off in the wrong direction of the real debate.

All the states that have so far legalized them in recent years have the same reasons, increasing opportunity in the face of falling and aging deer hunter number trends.

And wait until a couple CWD deer show up in northern Illinois, which they eventually will. Then look for legislators to run to anything that'll kill more deer. You'll see calls for legal baiting and rifles, when that happens. Bet on it.

I'm done commenting on this because I've already made my suggestion, so take it for what it is. At least think about it.

Your situation is like watching our trainwreck again, in slow motion. Many here in Michigan had your same position. It's all or nothing...and we got nothing. And it's happened over and over in other states.

If the position is that "nobody wants xbows", well then there should be nothing to fear, right? Because if nobody wanted them, nobody would buy them. The truth is, when xbows get legalized, there's going to be a boom of xbow sales and most will be guys already using decked out compounds.

Again, just my suggestion, figure out what additional things you want for deer seasons and be prepared to "head them off at the pass" for the next time this comes up, and then the next-next time.

Here's one of the blue prints state DNR's use for recruitment and retention. Everyone should read it...
 http://www.responsivemanagement.com/download/reports/AMOdist.pdf

Go ahead and fight the good fight and stand fast if you feel you must. All I'm saying is, the exact same thing happened here in Michigan and those who etched a line in the sand with their swords and said no xbow shall cross this line are still trying to figure out how they got destroyed and got virtually nothing from negotiations with the DNR or NRC.

Just my suggestion, realize that eventually xbows are coming to Illinois. It may not be this year or two years from now, but in 5-7 years, you'll have them.
I'd make a long list of things you'd like to see changed in Illinois, then as a group approach the DNR or legislature and say "ok, we'll accept xbows, but here's 20 changes we want made and we want an additional 2 months of bow season". Then at least you may get those things. Otherwise, just like all the other states, you'll get nothing and xbows will still be legal, eventually.

Anyhow, that's just my post-game recap of a loss here. Do whatever you feel you need to do and best of luck!

Offline bjansen

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Re: Crossbow bill in Illinois
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2012, 12:13:00 PM »
Mojostick, I do indeed appreciate your insight and certainly considering those things as well as the sportsman data we have.  Don't take my post the wrong way as I understand we are on the same page here and I understand your point on having alternative plans and compromised solutions to a battle that will not end anytime soon.  

Thanks

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