Kansas hunters express your concerns!!

[Al Dente]

There are many legitimate reasons to oppose crossbows during an archery season or archery only area.

They are pre-cocked and pre-loaded PRIOR to game being sigthed.

They can be fired from a sitting position with the RIFLE STOCK being rested on a shooting rail or shooting sticks.

They utilize TELESCOPIC sighting devices.

They shoot a FLATTER TRAJECTORY than a compound or traditional bow.

They have "out of the box" potential to hit a target at 100 yards.

The surface has merely been scratched as to their potential draw weights, and fps.

Please tell me how they can be considered archery equipment.  And do not use the line that it shoots an arrow.  It shoots a bolt for one thing, and secondly, look up the AIRROW.  It is a barrel that fits onto a Ruger .22 rifle that allows you to shoot arrows out of the barrel.  Is that suppopsed to be considered archery tackle as well because it shoots and arrow?

FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!!!!

[Al Dente]

Regarding Ohio, since legalizing crossbows for use during the archery season, crossbow hunters out number bowhunters by 3-2, and that ratio is also reflected in the harvest totals.  But what is not said, is that the Ohio firearms season is 6-10 days long.  Maybe that has a lot to do with the size and trophy quality of the deer herd.

[Cold Weather]

Al

xbow hunters are bowhunters.

towards your other points.

crossbow "bolts" are shorter arrows.

I actually made some up.  Took my 2216 classic arrows that I used to shoot with my trad bow, and cut them down.

towards your other points..it's a crossbow stock.  Crossbows predate firearms.

scopes?  hmmm..ya didnt know there where scopes on compounds?

your other points..well an xbow is a bow.  

just the way it is.

[Cold Weather]

Al

check out

 

as an example.

regarding 100 yard shots..

perhaps you should read Howard Hill's Hunting the Hard Way

Saxton Pope's Hunting with a Bow and Arrow has claims of longer shots as well

[Brock]

xbow hunters are NOT bowhunters....a bow is hand drawn, held and released with no stock, cocking mechanism or trigger release.

they may be historic, vintage, etc...but are not bows

the whole idea of bowhunting only seasons was to allow bowhunters the ability to hunt wildlife without competing against the rifle hunters on more relaxed animals...as bowhunting was seen as a primitive (hence, much tougher) challenge in the taking of animals due to range and accuracy...and drawing without being seen in close proximity to the prey.

just like rear loading or modern muzzleloaders are NOT what was intended by the founds of traditional muzzleloader seasons.  A modern blackpowder rifle can routinely take animals at 200 yards with little or no concern as to weather.  At this point they are really just single shot rifles....not a truly primitive weapon that requires skill, technique and perseverance to be successful like an iron sighted flint or percussion front loading blackpowder rifle shooting balls or conicals.

if all of these people were really enjoying and embracing the history of the xbow to hunt with then why do they only use them during archery only seasons...why dont they hunt with them in rifle season as well.  Why...because they are opportunistic hunters getting on the bandwagon, believing the hype and wanting the most time afield with the least amount of dedication or input.  Not 100% the case but 99% I would say.

It is infitely easier to shoot a xbow afield at an animal and be undetected before, during and after the shot than it is a bow.  Just as a compound with 90% letoff is NIGHT and DAY to using a recurve when hunting turkey or a whitetail within 15 yards.  Holding 8 pounds from an 80lb bow for a few seconds versus holding 50-60 for 1 second after drawing and trying to remain undetected.

they have the right to hunt with them as legal weapons...just keep them out of bowhunting seasons completely.

it is big money, manufacturers and advertisers that got this passed in every state...if they were a good idea and accepted as a bow it would have been included in 1950s when most of these seasons were enacted.  They werent...it was when compounds leveled out on sales that they went crossbow to make another wave of excitement for the television and social media generations...and for those that believe accessories and technology is the answer to everything.

[Cold Weather]

sorry Ron

an xbow is a bow so yes, they definitely are bowhunters.

I am afraid that is not the definition of a bow.  If I took a self bow, and put it in a hooter shooter, it would still be a bow.

towards the 50s..at one time it was illegal to use a compound bow in an archery season.

then there was the let off issue..some states didnt allow more than 65 per cent.  Expandable broadheads werent allowed.

but the point is that seasons and regulations can change, and do change.

currently 42 per cent of states allow xbows in archery season.  and it seems that every year, another 1 or 2 come aboard.

I was just reading a copy of Bowhunting World-xboows in there.  You can read articles on them in BowHunt America as well.

why would anyone want to hunt in firearm season with an xbow?  its not a firearm.

the reason people want to use them in archery seasons is simple-viable archery equipment and the right to choose.

[ChuckC]

Simply stated,   If it was a bow,  it would be called a bow.  It is not.

ChuckC

[Cold Weather]

is not a longbow a bow?

just a different type of bow Chuck.

I was just at two Cabelas stores..one just outside Minneapolis and the other at Huffington Estates in Illinois.

went to their respective archery depts and they had crossbows there.

was just reading a copy of BowHunt America and crossbows in their as well.

take a look at this:

 http://www.nfaa-archery.org/field/styles.cfm

scroll down and read about crossbows lol

really, it is silly to argue an crossbow is not a bow.

it would be better to admit that it is a bow, but then try to argue that it should not be allowed.

but, that would also present insurmoutable problems because of advances with compounds, and advances in hunting equipment in general.

I suppose argueing about the "draw and movemnt"-but then you gotta argue that blinds that allow one to shoot from inside and hide all movement also shouldnt be allowed.

you could argue those that shoot crossbows are lazy-but people such as myself actually own and shoot an xbow, and have 3 custom made recurves with a 4th on order, and a longbow as well!

[ChuckC]

I think it is silly to argue that it IS a bow. And I AM arguing that it shouldn't be allowed.  Let it get its own season.

In addition. . except for calling out to warn the troops, which is the way this topic started the rules of this site include :"No non Trad Bowhunting equipment (compounds, crossbows, mech heads, lazer sites, guns, etc...or even pics).  We are pushing that even now.

ChuckC

[Cold Weather]

Chuck

your government says its a bow.

crossbow manufacturers are members of the Archery Trade Assn.

Archery books say its a bow, so do archery magazines.

outdoor retailers such as Cabelas (Bass Pro as well was at their Portage IN store) so I think its reasonable to assume its a bow.

I really dont see how a discussion of crossbows violates rules, though I admit this is a traditional archery forum.

the problem with a crossbow having it's own season is where does this season come from?

I have yet to read one word of you that traditional bows and compounds should have a seperate season-most just lump them all the same.

if we took the archery season and subdivided it on equipment choice how could we do that?

I also fail to understand why someone else using an crossbow really makes a difference btw.  as an example, lets say one day I sat in my treestand with my wes wallace mentor wth zwickey broadheads-next day take my excalibur crossbow.  really, so what?

[Cold Weather]

Here is an example of long range shooting-straight from Hunting the Hard Way by Howard Hill:

page 93

in my earlier days of hunting, any animal under 200 yards was close enough for me to shoot at if I could not get closer-not that I ever killed one not that far.  yet once, in wyoming i killed a bull elk at 185 yards,.....

and then he accounts of limiting his shooting to 60 yards..

[TimDougan]

In the state of Pa where x-bows are legal.If you check the Hunting and Trapping digest under bow and arrow definitions a x-bow does not meet the definition of a bow. The bow must get its power from pulling the string by the shooter. Must be drawn, held and released by direct and conscious effort by the shooter. In Pa a X-BOW IS NOT A BOW! Legal yes a bow Not!  Just stating the facts. That being said its just a nother way to harvest game.TD. PS. i hope you don't believe everything your goverment tells you.
.

[ChuckC]

You don't get it, and I can't change you, I don't even want to try.

My government (Wisconsin) so far doesn't call it a bow.  Of course the archery association  and big box retailers do, the manufacturers are paying big money to make certain that they do. It is called marketing.  Once sales slack off on these puppies then the next money maker will take over. It doesn't matter if they work or not, make sense or not.  They don't care a whit about "the rest of the story"  They care about making a lot of dollars no matter what or who is hurt by it.  Check out any sporting advertisement and you will see.  Here, buy this, it is easier, it is better, you will actually be a real hunter. .  bull

Nobody cares if you get to hunt with the damned things.  What we care about is keeping them separate from bow season,  cause it ain't one. .

ChuckC

[TimDougan]

Well said ChuckC!

[Al Dente]

No one is denying anyone the right to hunt.  What is wrong is forcing something down the throats of those who cherish the archery season, who practice diligently with their tackle, and who do not compromise the integrity of the archery season.

Crossbows pre-date firearms because gun powder and the firearm was not yet invented.  The despots, overlords, and kings wanted a longer range weapon, so the crossbow was created.

I've never seen a SINGLE incident of a compound marketed with a scope on it, as EVERY crossbow is.

The government did not know where to place it, so they categorized as archery equipment, so the ATA jumped on board.  Funny, last I checked, the airlines regard it as a firearm when checking a cased crossbow.

On YouTube there are plenty of videos showing crossbows shot out to 100 yards at paper targets, balloons, and whatever else.

They want the archery season because they want the firearm hunter to buy a crossbow and pretend to be a bowhunter.  End of story.

[Cold Weather]

Al

now you claim "forcing something down the throats etc.."

no one is forcing you to use an crossbow.  You are free to use what you want.

if you think everyone practices diligently, then you are mistaken.

I used to work as an archery tech for Cabelas, and I cannot begin to tell you how many bowhunters do not practice and frankly are just out there to try to bag something.

now whether they do or not, I dont know,

I saw crossbows in the archery section of encyclopedias in the 1960s.

if I was going to check my crossbow in, I would use a firearm case.  Remove my recurve limbs, and lay them right in.  

I posted of Howard Hill and Saxton Pope with 100 yard shots.

it's a bow..nothing more...crossbows arent going away.

much ado about nothing.

[Cold Weather]

Originally posted by ChuckC:
You don't get it, and I can't change you, I don't even want to try.

My government (Wisconsin) so far doesn't call it a bow.  Of course the archery association  and big box retailers do, the manufacturers are paying big money to make certain that they do. It is called marketing.  Once sales slack off on these puppies then the next money maker will take over. It doesn't matter if they work or not, make sense or not.  They don't care a whit about "the rest of the story"  They care about making a lot of dollars no matter what or who is hurt by it.  Check out any sporting advertisement and you will see.  Here, buy this, it is easier, it is better, you will actually be a real hunter. .  bull

Nobody cares if you get to hunt with the damned things.  What we care about is keeping them separate from bow season,  cause it ain't one. .

ChuckC

actually Chuck I do get it.

I own one.  Have trad bows and compounds as well.  its all archery equipment.

you keep claiming to me its not, but seriously everything else says it is.

[Cold Weather]

Originally posted by TimDougan:
In the state of Pa where x-bows are legal.If you check the Hunting and Trapping digest under bow and arrow definitions a x-bow does not meet the definition of a bow. The bow must get its power from pulling the string by the shooter. Must be drawn, held and released by direct and conscious effort by the shooter. In Pa a X-BOW IS NOT A BOW! Legal yes a bow Not!  Just stating the facts. That being said its just a nother way to harvest game.TD. PS. i hope you don't believe everything your goverment tells you.
.

Tim

wasnt able to download your regs, but I did notice crossbows in archery season.

so, PA considers them archery equipment.

[Al Dente]

It is not forcing someone to use one, but forcing it upon the bowhunters by intrusion into the archery season.  It is purely manufacturer driven.  They see dollars by enticing firearms hunters to purchase one and hunt during the archery season.  That is the only reason why you see the proliferation of them.  

The manufacturers lure State game agencies with the allure of a new license fee to collect with the implementation of crossbows into the archery season.  

It has nothing to do with the elderly, the disabled, the physically challenged, the female, the youth, the wounded Veteran, or increasing hunting participants.  IT is about conning the hunting brethren into believing that they(crossbows) are the second coming, all the while expanding their bottom line.

I have been called an anti-hunter, an animal rights terorists, selfish, elitist, cursed at, and threatened.  All this, not from a non-hunting public, but from outdoor writers, and hunters themselves.  All because I want to keep the sport pure and not compromise its' integrity by allowing a superior implement.

[SteveB]

Superior implement = compound vs trad.