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Author Topic: Crossbow usage up in MI. Good or bad for us?  (Read 8073 times)

Offline Jakeemt

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Re: Crossbow usage up in MI. Good or bad for us?
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2013, 03:09:00 AM »
No problem with cross bows here.

Offline SKITCH

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Re: Crossbow usage up in MI. Good or bad for us?
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2013, 03:30:00 AM »
Cold Weather... Did you forget to read this?

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It has a trigger...it not a bow.  

If I design some kind of little "bow like" device to set off the primer on a black powder rifle...or better yet to fire my shotgun/rifle.....can I use it during bow season???   Wouldn't be too hard to do?  Just a thought.    Maybe we could even get shotguns that fire bolts???    
Why does it have to be so difficult? If you manually pull a string and release an arrow it's a bow....... Keep it simple.  Too bad big $$$ has to interfere.
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Offline Jakeemt

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Re: Crossbow usage up in MI. Good or bad for us?
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2013, 03:45:00 AM »
So you can't disagree with your dislike of crossbows? I didn't read that in the rules. I don't see why crossbows adversely affect traditional archery.

Online Al Dente

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Re: Crossbow usage up in MI. Good or bad for us?
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2013, 03:56:00 PM »
SKITCH, there already is a device like you describe.  It is called the AIRROW.  It is a barrel that is interchanged onto a Ruger .22 rifle.  That barrel enables its' user to fire arrows from it.  "Archery with your rifle" is how they advertise it.  Archery, right?  Ha.  Gotta laugh at all the angles they try to do to minimize the effort and dedication that is ARCHERY.  Anything else compromises the integrity of the archery seasons.
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Offline halfseminole

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Re: Crossbow usage up in MI. Good or bad for us?
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2013, 05:47:00 PM »
I know around here they're pushing the crossbow as the end-all answer to bow season.  The local shop not only has no trad gear, they laugh at people who "won't spend what it takes to hunt for real."  Hitting his target with my glasses off did nothing to his attitude.  If it doesn't have wheels, it's not bowhunting around here.  Crossbows are being promoted as making it just like gun season.

Hunting with crossbows is an old, old thing.  I'd like to see the legislators treat it as a separate thing altogether-it's not really archery, but it's crippled versus a gun as well.  That would of course require legislators capable of subtlety, and I live in Alabama.  

As an aside that has serious implications for the thread, I am a disabled hunter, and I have already been told I will experience a day when I can't draw a bow.  I just may swap to a crossbow for the lack of kick versus my converted 12 gauge slug gun. Would you all see me as abandoning the traditional spirit if I had to shoot a crossbow, even if I got one without the wheels (or rather, this one I'm building myself to be more accurate.)  It's a serious question that could keep a lot of people hunting for longer, but there's a hell of a stigma even if you need it.  My docs have thrown around the phrase "lose the left arm" before.  Not much left for someone with no teeth to hold a release and no arm.

Offline Zradix

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Re: Crossbow usage up in MI. Good or bad for us?
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2013, 07:08:00 PM »
come on man...
I don't think there is anyone here that would get on someone's case for shooting a crossbow for REAL medical reasons.
If some animals are good at hunting and others are suitable for hunting, then the Gods must clearly smile on hunting.~Aristotle

..there's more fun in hunting with the handicap of the bow than there is in hunting with the sureness of the gun.~ F.Bear

Offline Cold Weather

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Re: Crossbow usage up in MI. Good or bad for us?
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2013, 07:26:00 PM »
No one should get on anyone's case for shooting and hunting with an xbow period.

I really don't understand why anyone would even care.
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Offline adkarcher

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Re: Crossbow usage up in MI. Good or bad for us?
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2013, 06:46:00 AM »
If in the appropriate season, it doesn't matter.  Archery season is not the appropriate season for xbows.
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Offline Broke N Arrow

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Re: Crossbow usage up in MI. Good or bad for us?
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2013, 12:08:00 PM »
My dad use to say ..if u don't stand for something u will fall for anything.. I stand for true and simple archery..my Dad shot a300lb black bear in 1956 with a Ben Pearson longbow and a home made cedar arrow..it worked then and its still working today.. technology has no place in true archery..
Stand at the crossroads and look, seek for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is,and walk in it, and you will find rest for your soul....Scroll of Joshua

Offline Cold Weather

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Re: Crossbow usage up in MI. Good or bad for us?
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2013, 07:33:00 PM »
considering an xbow is archery, I really cant think of a more appropriate season than archery season.

as far as technology, its too late for that.
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Offline J.T.

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Re: Crossbow usage up in MI. Good or bad for us?
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2013, 08:51:00 PM »
Cold weather what archery skill is needed for a crossbow?  At least compounds are hand drawn and held even if they are full of technology we choose not to use they still require some archery skill crossbows use no archery skill they use the same skill set as a gun.  The way I see it they have more in common with guns than bows, therefore have no buisiness in bow season they belong with the guns or in there own season.
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Offline Broke N Arrow

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Re: Crossbow usage up in MI. Good or bad for us?
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2013, 09:02:00 PM »
A crossbow is not and never will be archery..its what will destroy real archery if we keep going in that direction..
Stand at the crossroads and look, seek for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is,and walk in it, and you will find rest for your soul....Scroll of Joshua

Offline Cold Weather

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Re: Crossbow usage up in MI. Good or bad for us?
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2013, 09:12:00 PM »
JT

I take it you have never used a xbow, because you assume it is like a firearm.

it is not.  and in no  way is it like carrying a firearm in the field.  

it's a type of bow.  there is absolutely no requirement to have "skill" to be in the archery season.

however, since you bring this up, I take it you would have  no objection to tests to determine proficiency?

now, if we put a paper plate out at say 20 yards, I could hit that virtually all the time with my compound.  I could also with my xbow.

but with my wes Wallace mentor?  not so sure.

interesting enough, I am LESS accurate with my xbow than with my compound.  I am also less accurate with my xbow than my firearms.

and that is not uncommon.  if you look at the IBO scores compound vs xbow there is  difference.

towards xbows in firearm seasons-so it belongs in the same season as my 300 wby mag?  that's beyond words...

its a bow, a different type of a bow.  now since you claim it belongs in its own season, where does this season come from?

anyway, now there  are many examples of xbows in archery seasons.  Some 30 plus years like OH, WY, ONT and BC.  so show me where it has been delirious?
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Offline J.T.

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Re: Crossbow usage up in MI. Good or bad for us?
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2013, 09:23:00 PM »
You talked about the accuracy of a crossbow not the archery skills used to shoot one and you would be wrong I have shot crossbows I have a few.disabled friends.that use them and I've helped them site in there crossbows it was just like sighting in a rifle.
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Offline Brock

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Re: Crossbow usage up in MI. Good or bad for us?
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2013, 09:59:00 PM »
Crossbows are bad to me....if you cant shoot a real bow for hunting during archery only seasons....but want to shoot a crossbow.  have at it...just dont call it bowhunting and do it during archery seasons.

hunt with it during the general firearms season...afterall it has a stock, a trigger, and most are mounted with scopes.

crossbows are not meant to be used for hunting during archery only seasons....

use them all you want...just not for bowhunting as they have little in common with a hand held, hand drawn vertical bow.  The compound of today has gone way too far with 90%+ let off, scopes, laser range finders built into sights, etc....

have to draw the line somewhere and I say keep xbows out of archery season...period.

have you pro technology guys forgotten that archery only seasons and the true muzzleloader seasons were enacted to give people shooting primitive weapons a head start on hunting without competing with the rifles and shotguns.  That the challenge was in getting close and using skills, woodsmanship, and close range tactics in getting an opportunity (not a sure thing).....it took dedication aside from some that were lucky...but to be consistent you had to work at it.

now with modern blackpowder you shoot sabot rounds with pellet powder that is breech loaded with scopes on top and shotgun primers that are accurate over 200 yards and is nothing more than a single shot rifle to be honest.  same with compounds....with the 90%+ let off....auto range finding sights, lighted nocks, 350+ fps speeds on ultralight arrows with expandable heads....guys are taking 70yd shots on a regular basis with quartering toward shots at 30-45 yards common in magazines and television.  Also a far cry from what it was in past.

Once again...it is not about how far you can shoot...or how many animals you shoot at...it is about challenge, woodsmanship, dedication and seeing how you fare against animals within their danger zone of 10-30 yards for whitetail...being WOLF CLOSE where they are their most alert.

when television and magazines show over and over the young person or first time hunter and they are taken and get a Booner or PY buck that would rival 90% of what we have shot after a lifetime...yeah it is exciting but is it setting that person up for life of disappointment or temptation with more technology as they strive to beat that first rush of the record animal their parent or outfitter found, filmed, patterned, and then put them there to shoot when it came by the stand?  how much better would it be for them to sit the stand with a parent...take a doe or cull buck for their first...learn how to track and read sign...learn disappointment with not playing the wind, not practicing the shots, not making good choices...to be rewarded with a nice doe or small buck after some work.  Then having to work out their own stand and animals after that on their own...learning both successes and defeats?

We are cheating our youth and ourselves by allowing technology to replace skills and emotions felt and learned over thousands of years....by turning the killing of an animal into more about long range shooting and technology than the intimate, emotional, killing experience it can be when successful...or the frustration when things dont go right but you never give up.????

No xbows in bow seasons....I think industry is driving modern bows and xbows...and that is why it is so popular with television personalities being the primary driver and the ability to do little more than sight in the xbow and then go hunting the same day if you want just like most hunters do with rifles already.  I think we will lose the battle and xbows will be allowed in the P&Y as an official bow for book animals...too much money being thrown around for it not to happen...just like P&Y giving in to raising the letoff above 65%....and how they seem to be leaning for allowing lighted/electronic nocks....all because someone shot a potential world class animal and it cant be listed.

Proves it is all about how much money and recognition you can get as an org or person...and not respect for the animal or the skills to get close and make it happen as the seasons were intended when first enacted in 50s and 60s.
Keep em sharp,

Ron Herman
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Backcountry Hunters & Anglers
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NRA Life
USAF Retired (1984-2004)

Offline Cold Weather

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Re: Crossbow usage up in MI. Good or bad for us?
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2013, 10:49:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by J.T.:
You talked about the accuracy of a crossbow not the archery skills used to shoot one and you would be wrong I have shot crossbows I have a few.disabled friends.that use them and I've helped them site in there crossbows it was just like sighting in a rifle.
hmmm the dymamics of sighting in an xbow are almost identical.

except that after every shot, I have to use a cocking aid.

much more tiresome to sight in than a rifle.

go to 50 yards with an xbow, and see if you can shoot it with anywhere near the accuracy of a rifle.

you cant.

carry it in the woods, and tell me it carries like a rifle.

it don't.

of course you have to be able to judge the distance with an xbow for shots, because of the high trajectory.

a rifle at xbow ranges?  lol you don't.

sorry an xbow doesn't compare to a firearm.

towards a comparison towards  other archery equipment-it has its pluses and minuses.  since I own all the archery equipment-compounds, recurves, longbow, and xbow I know this very well.

but you show me exactly where xbows are delirious.  to me, its a great way of keeping people in the woods, and introducing bowhaunting and archery to them.

my FIRST ever arrow was shot with an xbow and I have been in the sport ever since.  that was about 1967.

 because its archery equipment its seasons pretty obvious.
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Offline Brock

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Re: Crossbow usage up in MI. Good or bad for us?
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2013, 11:04:00 PM »
keep them in woods...not in archery only seasons.
Keep em sharp,

Ron Herman
Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Backcountry Hunters & Anglers
PBS Assoc since 1988
NRA Life
USAF Retired (1984-2004)

Offline J.T.

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Re: Crossbow usage up in MI. Good or bad for us?
« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2013, 07:12:00 AM »
Cold weather
I never said a x bow was as.accurate as a rifle or that it would shoot as far.  The act of shooting a.x bow has more in common with shooting a.rifle than a bow.  What I asked was what archery skills are used to shoot a x bow?  (Anchor point , back tension, hand drawn, hand held ect.)
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Offline Brock

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Re: Crossbow usage up in MI. Good or bad for us?
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2013, 08:13:00 AM »
none JT...absolutely nothing other than screwing a broadhead into the end of the shaft.
Keep em sharp,

Ron Herman
Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Backcountry Hunters & Anglers
PBS Assoc since 1988
NRA Life
USAF Retired (1984-2004)

Offline Cold Weather

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Re: Crossbow usage up in MI. Good or bad for us?
« Reply #39 on: August 06, 2013, 09:44:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by J.T.:
Cold weather
I never said a x bow was as.accurate as a rifle or that it would shoot as far.  The act of shooting a.x bow has more in common with shooting a.rifle than a bow.  What I asked was what archery skills are used to shoot a x bow?  (Anchor point , back tension, hand drawn, hand held ect.)
I think we both know that.

btw...an xbow is shot as an xbow.  not a gun.  xbows far outdate firearms.  I have read they date to 600BC.

of course, how it is shot is immaterial because its a type of bow.  a different type of a bow than a compound/recurve.

to add, a compound bow with sights, release is shot much different than a trad bow.  and even more, now many use laser rangefinders.

range the distance with a laser, then use a moveable pin sight so you can set the pin exactly.  then shoot with a release and aim with a peep sight.

I have yet to see one valid reason why someone shouldn't use an xbow if they want and don't think I ever will.  the best I have ever seen is that one doesn't like it.  If one doesn't like it, then don't use it.   ;)

would you support proficiency tests to determine if one should be in the archery season or  not?  Regardless of the bow-5 arrows into a paper plate at 20 yards.
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