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Author Topic: Missouri Dept of Conservation-Bad Decisions  (Read 14933 times)

Offline leftyfred

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Missouri Dept of Conservation-Bad Decisions
« on: May 30, 2014, 10:36:00 AM »
In the new Missouri Conservationist I received yesterday, the Dept of Conservation released this in it's new whitetail management strategy.  "In an effort to increase participation, recruit younger hunters, retain older hunters, and provide an additional tool for urban deer management, we are considering expanding the archery season to include crossbows."  In my opinion, this is a horrible decision for the state of Missouri.  The deer are not going to be subject to any movement preceeding a shot, nor be immune to a shot of 70 yards or more.  I am very disappointed in this decision, and plan on attending a meeting in the Springfield area on June 17th to voice my complaint.  Anyone else concerned, take a look at you conservationist to determine a meeting date in your area.  Mike

Offline D.J. Carr

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Re: Missouri Dept of Conservation-Bad Decisions
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2014, 10:53:00 AM »
They've already done this in Pennsylvania.  I'm torn on the issue myself.
An archer tries to find ways to shoot further more accurately, a bowhunter tries to get as close as possible to ensure his shot is accurate.

Offline L82HUNT

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Re: Missouri Dept of Conservation-Bad Decisions
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2014, 10:54:00 AM »
If it brings younger hunters I'm for it.  The real question what will it do to the deer heard?   Not much.  Maybe a few thousand more deer. I would trade that for all the extra rifle seasons we have

Offline awbowman

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Re: Missouri Dept of Conservation-Bad Decisions
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2014, 11:00:00 AM »
We have been having crossbows in Louisiana for a few years now (anybody can shoot them in archery season) and they do not kill any more deer than compound bows do.  You would think they would but they don't.

X-bow users VERY SOON learn that they have no more lethality than a compound bow.  In other words "if you can't kill it with a compound, you can't kill it with an x-bow".  They are however more accurate for a person who doesn't practice shooting enough, so I say fewer wounded deer is a good thing.
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Offline Kip

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Re: Missouri Dept of Conservation-Bad Decisions
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2014, 11:11:00 AM »
They keep doing stuff like that in Louisiana.Crossbows,muzzel loaders with scope or almost modern bullets.It is all about selling more licenses for more revenue.Our state is broke and probably a bunch of others.Kip

Offline dbd870

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Re: Missouri Dept of Conservation-Bad Decisions
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2014, 11:25:00 AM »
No big deal, they have no more range than a compound and the biggest change I've seen since IN has opened it up is kids using them. I'd rather have new blood in hunting than not involved at all. I know 1 teen girl that won't hunt with anything else. Doesn't like shooting guns but will take her Xbow out during archery and firearms seasons. I don't really care for them, but to each his/her own.
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Offline leftyfred

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Re: Missouri Dept of Conservation-Bad Decisions
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2014, 11:25:00 AM »
I respectfully disagree with using a crossbow to bring younger hunters to the sport of archery.  If a crossbow is an attractant to a younger hunter to harvest an animal, that is ok, just don't call it archery.  We have so many instant gratification avenues for kids, how about trying something that takes some effort?  My sons have shot bows for years and never had the privilege of hunting until mature.  If an inner city kid wants to hunt lawn deer with a crossbow, do it in gun season where triggers are allowed.  I refuse to accept easier methods to harvest a clever, super intelligent animal to pacify a new group of kids that already sit on their butts and only use their thumbs on a screen.  If they want to bowhunt, parents mentor them, teach them archery, discipline, and respect for their prey. If they fall in love with the sport, great.  If it is too much effort, they would be most likely to give up on a difficult blood trail in 15 minutes.  Is that who we want with an archery tag in their pocket? Mike

Offline Troy D. Breeding

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Re: Missouri Dept of Conservation-Bad Decisions
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2014, 11:45:00 AM »
AL did it several years ago as well. I was living there when it came in. I was more scared of the nut cases that thought they could drop one in it's tracks at 100yds. Can't say if anyone ever got hurt, but it sure made me stick close to home that first year.
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Offline RLA

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Re: Missouri Dept of Conservation-Bad Decisions
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2014, 11:45:00 AM »
I'm pretty sure lots of guys have been shooting deer with crossbows already, guess they've decided to go ahead & make it legal. I can only think of the movie phrase, show me the money! Hunting has become big business, look at all the goodies on the market. Electric huntin buggies that cost more than a truck, $400 camera systems, $600 camo outfits, it goes on & on. I admit sometimes I do get a little jealous when I see some of the neater stuff & know I can't afford it. Then I stop & realize the real reason I'm in the woods. I can have just as much if not more fun in the woods without it.

Offline RLA

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Re: Missouri Dept of Conservation-Bad Decisions
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2014, 11:50:00 AM »
& NO I'm not in favor of crossguns in BOW season.

Offline DennyK

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Re: Missouri Dept of Conservation-Bad Decisions
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2014, 01:47:00 PM »
Mike- Welcome to Michigan. We have trigger devices in the woods from Sept-January. Pitiful!
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Offline dhaverstick

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Re: Missouri Dept of Conservation-Bad Decisions
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2014, 04:02:00 PM »
I'm with you, John. This whole argument of recruiting young hunters is a pile of horse hockey. What a bunch of hypocrites! They say that using an device that's "easier" or has a flatter learning curve will recruit more kids. Yet they also say we need to tell our youth that anything worth having is worth working for. Well, which is it?

If we want to make everything easier to recruit more  youth participation, why don't we lower basketball goals to 6 feet so everyone can dunk or shorten a football field to 50 yards so Little Johnny doesn't have so far to run.

Give me a freaking break!

Darren

Offline Draw A. Leterfly

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Re: Missouri Dept of Conservation-Bad Decisions
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2014, 06:33:00 PM »
Mike I agree with you 100%. If a person young or old isn't willing to put forth the effort required to shoot a compound accurately(which isn't much) then they don't deserve the PRIVILEGE of participating in the ARCHERY season.
Darren
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Online dnovo

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Re: Missouri Dept of Conservation-Bad Decisions
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2014, 06:58:00 PM »
Archery season used to mean you were a dedicated hunter willing to give up the extra range of a gun and work harder and practice for that coveted close shot.
Now it is just about how lazy can you be and still get to hunt in archery season.
And I'm all about taking kids hunting as I did it a lot with mine and some others. But a 7 or 8 year old kid doesn't need to be shooting deer at that age. They need to be learning what hunting is about instead of being gratified by using a crossbow. When they can pull a bow of decent weight and prove they're ready mentally, let them hunt.
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Offline Steve D

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Re: Missouri Dept of Conservation-Bad Decisions
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2014, 04:18:00 PM »
Instant gratification will cause more harm than good,hope that Missouri doesn't allow crossbow for general use in the archery season.
Youth need to be at some time told they will have to wait or earn it!!

Offline snapper1d

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Re: Missouri Dept of Conservation-Bad Decisions
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2014, 05:03:00 PM »
I have used one and sorry to say I am using one now.Old age and arthritis has been creeping up to where I can get around so well like I used to.Cant shoot a bow like I used too either.Now all I can shoot is one of the 32# bows I have and that wont get it for hunting.

Offline halfseminole

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Re: Missouri Dept of Conservation-Bad Decisions
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2014, 07:21:00 PM »
Here in AL they're getting to be pretty popular, but as I can hunt my own land I haven't had to worry as much.  Yes, it's archery, but I'm betting if I showed up with a cho ko nu (Chinese repeating crossbow, self cocking and loading) they'd probably rethink their decision.  It saves deer from marginal weight shots, but I'm not so sure it makes their aim any better.

I don't think anyone's downing the disabled for using them here.  I'm still hunting with my horsebows after becoming wheelchair bound as a result of my genetic condition, but for a disabled hunter I see no shame.  It's the lazy people that I take exception to.  There's no room for laziness when hunting.

Offline Jakeemt

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Re: Missouri Dept of Conservation-Bad Decisions
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2014, 12:40:00 AM »
I like them myself. I would use a recurve type crossbow if the mood suited me. I also like trad bows though and find that they have several advantages over any cross bow if you can get good enough. I have no problem with them.

Offline Brock

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Re: Missouri Dept of Conservation-Bad Decisions
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2014, 09:52:00 AM »
it is all about money....  a crossbow allows someone to buy one in the morning...spend 30 minutes sightin in the scope...and be in the woods that evening to "bowhunt" when they have no real interest in bowhunting and only want what is EASY and the current fad as seen on television.

they are NOTHING like bows....they have a stock, a trigger, optical sights and can be cocked and carried like that almost indefinitely..even with bolt loaded and ready to go.  When time comes you put crosshair or red dot on animal and squeeze trigger with absolutely NO MOVEMENT for the animal to detect.  NO CHALLENGE at all other than getting close...and even then a 30-40yd shot is no problem even for a beginner.  It is all about instant gratification, no effort, and more sales for AMA and state in licenses....and is not bowhunting.

I dont believe the hype about exposing kids to bowhunting as it is nothing related to bowhunting....teach them to shoot a fiberglass youth bow...then move up to glass backed recurve or longbow...archery is about being hand drawn, hand released, held in mostly vertical position with arrows.

When I see men that are blind, have lost fingers, have loss of muscle mass, arthritis shooting traditional bows....I lose any acceptance of everyone saying they do it for medical reasons.

For myself...if I ever get to where I cannot draw a bow myself that is of suitable hunting weight....then I will stop bowhunting and pick up my old .54cal front loading true muzzleloader with iron sights, granuled black powder and lead ball or conical bullets ignited with flint or #11 percussion caps....none of this scoped, pellet, sabot bullet, shotgun primer, rear primed rifles that just happen to shoot something with black powder components that are accurate out over 200 yds all day long.

I will instead mentor my grand children, nephews and nieces and neighborhood kids on what real bowhunting and archery is.....help them shoot...help them build osage and hickory selfbows...and teach them woodsmanship, animal characteristics, and that shooting a doe or small buck is every bit as challenging and commendable as the farm raised deer and multi-thousand dollar canned hunts where the "Pro " or their child shows up and shoots a 180+ deer for their FIRST DEER!

Primitive weapon seasons were started to give primitive hunters an option to hunt without competing with the modern weapons.  Allowing modern muzzleloaders and crossbows into these primitive seasons is an abomination....and only there to make money.  If these people really loved bowhunting and muzzleloader hunting they would be using the intended weapons.  THey are trying to get more animals on the ground using the most technology legally allowed for instant gratification without any or minimal effort...same as most do with rifles and shotguns...they shoot them one time if lucky to sight in and dont touch them until they pull the trigger again on an animal.

It disgusts me....


Now if someone wants to use a crossbow in the general firearms season...so be it...more power to them and as long as they make every effort to be practiced with the weapon and take ethical shots....good on them if it keeps them in the woods.

Just keep it out of the bowhunting seasons....even if person is claiming disability...doesnt matter...shoot it in general firearms season....nothing says everyone has to be able to do anything they want to do...sometimes you just dont have the skill or the physical stamina.  In those cases you focus on other sports or options...you dont force the multitude to lower the standards so you can try it out using a weapon that has nothing in common with those that you claim to aspire.
Keep em sharp,

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Offline halfseminole

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Re: Missouri Dept of Conservation-Bad Decisions
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2014, 10:35:00 AM »
I guess I should have clarified my point.  Primitive crossbows I still consider part of archery, what with no sights and much effort needed in cocking and resetting the machine.  The new ones are pretty much bowguns.

I know that I'm in your category of people who do anyway with disease-two strokes, untreatable damage leaving me wheelchair bound and a genetic condition trashing my body and I still shoot a 45-50 pound horn bow for hunting.  I've seen people who are injured worse than me and I wonder what to do for them.  There's nothing like being unable to do what you could before.  It's its own special hell.  Do we give them compounds with 95% letoff?  Do we allow only them to use crossbows?  what do we do?

I agree with getting them out of our bow season. Just a little research convinced me of that.  But how do we help our disabled hunters best-especially all the vets that come back torn apart that still would hunt and defend our rights in the woods?

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