Missouri Dept of Conservation-Bad Decisions

[dnovo]

Jake, I'm going to have to disagree with you on a couple things. First thing however I will agree that we have probably the best Conservation Dept in the country. However it is coming under increasingly heavy fire from our legislators. If you are not aware of the recent bills filed trying to dismantle our dept and take away funding, then I suggest you research that.
 Yes the dept says public input says to allow crossbows, but their surveys are flawed in whom they ask. When you ask firearms hunters if crossbows should  be allowed, what do you think the answer will be?
I think you are a younger man and should possibly research the history of archery hunting in our fair state to try to understand what was accomplished to get archery seasons here.
Also archery hunting has always been portrayed as a challenge, but the modern hunters want to try to make everything easier. Contradiction? I think so.
Crossbows are not archery equipment with a stock and a trigger and a scope and will never be considered archery to me.

[Jakeemt]

Dnovo. While I don't think we will agree on the crossbow issue. I am aware of what is going on  in Jeff City. I have sent a few emails but, it looks like time for letters as well. I haven't heard if the MO  farm  bureau is behind this like most of the other times. Do you know if this is the case? When will these guys get it and back off.

[dnovo]

Jake,
Actually the consensus is that a lot of it is retaliation from the deer breeders being shot down last year trying to take control of captive deer from the MDC.
Several legislators have actually said so.

[Jakeemt]

What a lot of B.S. I called and left one message and spoke to another aid for my locals from both the general assembly and the senate today. I let them know that A) I am a registered voter, B) I vote in local elections and while I swing republican I am independent and C) that I would be watching carefully their votes on these 8 bills. I will also make a call to Mr. Nixon's office to tell him (again) how pleased I was about his veto. I don't usually do that kinda thing but, the MDC is one of the few issue that gets me on the phone or writing letters.

[dhaverstick]

Besides contacting your elected officials personally, I think it's really important to become a member of the Conservation Federation of Missouri. This organization is the political hammer we can use on the knuckleheads in Jeff City. Also, CFM has the clout to steer policy inside of the Missouri Department of Conservation.

The CFM annual convention is the weekend of March 20th-22nd at the Capitol Plaza Hotel in Jefferson City. It is open to the public and this where a lot of big time decisions are made concerning the MDC regulations.

[Jakeemt]

Thanks for the heads up man. I am gonna join up.

[Jim Jackson]

Update from MDC:

If you are able to attend any of the open house meetings, it sure will help to get our opinions heard.

Update About Deer Open House Meetings

Tuesday evening was the third of eight open house meetings conducted by the Missouri Department of Conservation to gather public input regarding the deer regulations under consideration for the 2016-2017 season and to offer a comment opportunity for the non-resident hunting permit fee structure.

Attendance at the meetings has included:
108 in Blue Springs, on Tuesday, February 24
198 in Kirkwood, on Thursday, February 26
72 in Springfield, on Tuesday, March 3

The open house format provides an opportunity for one-on-one discussions with Department staff. Missourians can ask questions and give us their thoughts about the proposed deer season changes and conservation.

YOUR IDEAS COUNT, WE WANT YOUR OPINIONS

To explain the proposed changes and gather public feedback, the following public open house meetings are still available around the state from 5 to 8 p.m.:

    March 5 -- West Plains Civic Center, 110 St. Louis St. in West Plains;
    March 10 – MDC Cape Girardeau Nature Center, 2289 County Park Drive in Cape Girardeau;
    March 12 – MDC Northeast Regional Office, 3500 S. Baltimore in Kirksville;
    March 16 – MDC Central Regional Office, 3500 E. Gans Road in Columbia; and
    March 31 – MDC Northwest Regional Office, 701 James McCarthy Drive in St. Joseph.

MDC also welcomes public comments online. To learn more about the proposed regulations, MDC’s deer management plan, past public comments, and to provide comment, visit the Department’s website at mdc.mo.gov/node/28079.

Mail comments to: Missouri Department of Conservation, Attn: Policy Coordination, P.O. Box 180, Jefferson City, MO 65102.

[dhaverstick]

I attended the Springfield open house and there wasn't any information offered there than one can't get from the MDC website. Also, any questions asked that weren't already answered in the preprinted material were met with "deer in the headlights" stares. We were told several times to fill out the comment cards to make our voices heard. I can do that from home. Overall, I wasn't too impressed.

One thing of value that I did hear from a MDC employee was that the crossbow inclusion issue was being pushed by the MDC leadership at the top.

Darren

[Bowwild]

I used to despise the crossbow and fought their inclusion in the agencies where I worked.

Then we did a survey of bowhunters in KY and to my surprise only 21% objected to them in the archery season, 20% wanted them, and the other 59% didn't care.

I'm still not a fan of the crossbow because it isn't bowhunting as I've known it. Also, it is no more of a youth hunting tool than a .243...much adult supervision and assistance is required. It is a life-style extender for folks who develop injury as they get older. My best friend of 69 years is now only able to bow hunt with crossbows. It makes him sick (past IBO world champ with curves) but not as sick as sitting home remembering.

The Missouri Dept. of Conservation is one of the top 5 in the United States. You don't have to agree with everything proposed but please let's disagree in a respectful and thoughtful manner.  I've sat before Commissions and listened to a few bowhunters just destroy their credibility.

By the way, I learned yesterday that it takes about 5-7 years after a new crossbow season is put in affect for the "archery" harvest to be 50:50 vertical vs. crossbow.  This is not overall increased harvest it is just lots of firearms guys killing with crossbows instead of their rifles and 20% or so of vertical guys making the switch as well.

[ChuckC]

Roy, has anybody crunched the numbers to show if there is any increase in harvest percent success as we would expect ?  

Last fall was Wisconsin's first full inclusion and the numbers show about one third of the "archery" deer were killed with a cross bow ( vs vertical bow).  

It also appeared to show that gun harvest was at about 46% success, vertical bow was at about 30% and crossbow was at about 42%.  This was arrived at by comparing the state's numbers of licenses reported sold vs the numbers of deer killed in each class.

First year and it was almost, within a few points, as high a success rate as rifles.

Who'da guessed.
ChuckC

[kennym]

My $.02

I think it will increase total harvest with all the gun guys taking up the crossbow and also hunting gun season.

I am NOT in favor of crossbows being included in bow season. They can already be used in gun season and in archery by disabled folk. Why make it any easier? Tag sales??

[dhaverstick]

MDC's mantra for crossbow inclusion is that it will provide more opportunities for folks to hunt. Now I am all in favor of more people taking up hunting but it really, really bothers me that the "Easy Button" mentality has crept into the hunting community. Bowhunting is not supposed to be easy - that's why most of us do it, for the challenge. My middle-class work ethic tells me that if I want to succeed at something then I need to work hard at achieving that success. I guess I am in the minority, though. People don't want to put in the time to become proficient with a real bow. They just want to buy some pre-packaged weapon, practice for a half hour and hit the woods. I don't consider these people hunters. They are just people who hunt.

Darren

[Jakeemt]

I think a reasonable compromise would be to allow their use in archery only areas during gun and alternative season. The main issue I see here is access. You have to drive quite a ways sometime is you are a suburban hunter to find an areas that allows rifles for safety reasons. Example I am 15-30 minutes away from 4 conservation areas that are archery only. My closest area that allows rifles is an hour and a half. From a safety standpoint crossbows are in the same class as compounds. So why not open up these archery only area's to crossbows but, only in rifle season.

[Jakeemt]

Dhaverstick. With respect I disagree. My pops is a compound hunter. He keeps all his shots within 20 and only practices a half hour or once or twice a month. On the flip side he works a lot saving up for that retirement you know but, is my frequent scouting buddy. We scout nearly year round. He's as much a hunter as I am.

Bowwild-I couldn't have said that any better myself.

[dhaverstick]

The MDC Regulations Committee meets at 8:30 am on Thursday, July 2nd to discuss the proposal for crossbow inclusion. The meeting will be held at MDC headquarters (2901 W. Truman Boulevard) in Jefferson City. If you feel strongly about this issue, I encourage you to attend this meeting. I know several folks will be addressing the committee to explain why they think this is a bad idea.

Darren

[dhaverstick]

Well, I attended the Regulations Committee meeting and the end result was not good but not unexpected. Several folks spoke to the committee in  opposition to the inclusion of crossbows but it all fell on deaf ears. When the proposal came up for a vote, there was no discussion or anything and the proposal passed unanimously. It was obvious to everyone in the room that the decision had been made long before the meeting was held.

Now the passed regulation change proposals will be sent to the MDC Director and he, in turn, will make his recommendations to the Conservation Commission. I think the Commission will make their decisions sometime in the middle of September.

Darren

[goingoldskool]

Thanks for the update, Darren....

I wish the outcome would have been different.

Rodd

[kennym]

"It was obvious to everyone in the room that the decision had been made long before the meeting was held."

And I bet a dollar to a donut the commission already knows what their decision will be in September.

I couldn't make the meeting but have sent numerous emails.

Thanks for being there Darren....

[dhaverstick]

Kenny, it was a sad state of affairs. There were eight of us that addressed the committee and all were in opposition to the crossbow proposal. There was no one in the room, other than MDC personnel, that identified themselves as for the proposal. Yet our voices carried no weight.

State deer biologist, Jason Sumners, had the last word and gave his presentation showing no adverse effects on the deer herd due to crossbow inclusion. His data also showed that, in other states, it is older hunters that make up the majority of the crossbow users. I thought this was interesting and it was rather unexpected as I thought it would be the younger crowd who was using them. This information, though, kind of shoots a hole in the MDC argument that crossbow inclusion will recruit more hunters. According to Jason's presentation, all it does is retain older hunters.

I guess our next big push is to make MDC add a question to the tele-check system asking hunters to identify the weapon they used to take their deer. It would be very interesting to see that data and it would be clear, once and for all, how popular crossbows really are. Right now, nobody knows. MDC, so far, has been very reluctant to add that question for some reason.

Darren

[ChuckC]

I would ask for clarification re the
"older hunters" cause I for one just plain don't believe a word of that.... Did they actually run the data to show the ages of those crossbow users ?
ChuckC