Crossguns in PA

[Ron Vought]

I agree. Just kill the deer has lead to less hunters here in PA. Maybe a good thing about less hunters in the woods...Not sure.

Ron

[FOX SQUIRREL NUTS]

Originally posted by Ron Vought:
I agree. Just kill the deer has lead to less hunters here in PA. Maybe a good thing about less hunters in the woods...Not sure.

Ron

Ron, i think its a good and bad thing. Now that hunters are needed to kill more deer we are now a necessity as opposed to a luxury (which is what bow season in ohio was based on originally).  BY luxury i mean that we were deemed to have a very minimal impact on the deer herds so they gave us the OK.  Now we kill a lot of deer.  A concern i do have with crossbows is there is a very negative attribute that happens every year in gun season ad its the lack of respect for other peoples property and tresspassing.  My opinion on it is i do feel strongly that the crossbow has allowed that negative migration into our "bowhunters" and they use the crossbow as a tool to do that because its easy and they don't have to wear that annoying orange that gets them busted.  That may seem like a very broad generalization but that is what i see from my stand. There are people of all weapons that do this but again from my stand, they are the crossbow crowd.  I do realize that not every crossbow hunter is bad and that is not the point but i find it to be a gateway tool like marijuana is for other harder narcotics.

[monkeyball]

A possible Penna. state record has been killed this year in "Archery" season. The buck is going to score in the high 180's and possibly break 190. 302# live weight and the" tips" of the antlers are almost 2"thick. The rack measured a 19" spread. Extremely heavy.

  Shot in Allegheny Co. on Oct. 10, private ground. The hunter used a crossbow to kill it. Range......62+yards. A new State record more than likely.

  I have nothing against this weapon either. It just does not belong in "Archery" season. It is not a "bow". And seeing how we have given it other names I like to refer to it as a Crossgow. A cross between a gun and a bow. Stock,trigger,scope,sling = gun....limbs ,bolt, string,broadhead = bow.  Crossgow

 Deer do not stand much of a chance these days as far as seasons go. Like stated above ,some areas start in the end of Sept. and are still running. Couple that with Coyote and Black Bear predation plus the upcoming CWD coming into Pa. and you are looking at numbers falling.

  Crossgows have there place but it is not in the Archery Season.
     
   Penna. should put the Crossgows in with the early muzzleloading (inline) season,ending with the junior/senior hunt. Let them all hunt that one week, just them, and then it's a done deal.

 Archery season goes back to Archery season as we all knew it.

  Something is going to happen, time will tell.

                                       Good Hunting,
                                                   Craig

[Ron Vought]

Agreed Craig. Just wondering what will be sacrificed if something has to give.

Ron

[59Alaskan]

I am content as long as the discussion and decisions around season lengths/bag limits etc...center around 2 things:

A) Game management
B) Maintaing/increasing people enjoying the hunt

What is the proper balance across those two and what will drive the optimal result will change over time.

I have no qualm hunting a bow in gun season.  I have killed deer that way...multiple times....

I also don't worry about trophies and records; therefore, my opinion could be very different from others.

Hunters of all types need to work together to keep us all out there...hug a crossbow hunter today!  LOL....

[Traditional-Archer]

Really you guys are worried about crossbows in the archery season how funny.
If you guys haven’t heard I will let you know now, we have guns in the archery season here in PA. You can hunt with an inline muzzleloader, which is nothing less than a high powered rifle that can reach out there to over 200 yards, and if you are a youth hunter or a senior you can use a rifle all together. Crossbows are not my biggest problem, if it was not for a crossbow my friend that was hurt in a car accident wouldn't be able to hunt with us guys anymore, being he is restrained to a wheelchair for the rest of his life. The crossbow probable saved his life and gave him purpose.    

I have had compound shooters leave the archery rang because I was outshooting them on the course, I have friends that have went back to traditional gear after hunting with me for a few years and seeing that you can shoot a traditional bow accurately and harvest game year after year.  

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Traditional-Archer:
Really you guys are worried about crossbows in the archery season how funny.

If you guys haven’t heard I will let you know now, we have guns in the archery season here in PA. You can hunt with an inline muzzleloader, which is nothing less than a high powered rifle that can reach out there to over 200 yards, and if you are a youth hunter or a senior you can use a rifle all together.

ANY firearm during archery-only season is just plain STUPID.

Crossbows are not my biggest problem, if it was not for a crossbow my friend that was hurt in a car accident wouldn't be able to hunt with us guys anymore, being he is restrained to a wheelchair for the rest of his life. The crossbow probable saved his life and gave him purpose.        

very true.  i give presentations, demonstrations, and hold archery tackle seminars with scout kids.  TANJ is one of the largest supporters (with both time AND money) for the education of kids and archery and bowhunting, perhaps in the nor'east.

 www.tradnj.com

we lead by example.  

I have had compound shooters leave the archery rang because I was outshooting them on the course, I have friends that have went back to traditional gear after hunting with me for a few years and seeing that you can shoot a traditional bow accurately and harvest game year after year.      

to each their own.  life is short, make the most of it for yourself and humanity.        

[Traditional-Archer]

Mr. DiStefano this is what I read. when someone says we don't that means all.

 

BUT, i do NOT want anyone reading through trad gang posts to think WE (trad gang) endorse crossgun hunting during archery season. we don't.

That is OK it is just a misunderstanding of that statement, If it were personal I wouldn't want any other tool or weapon being used in any season other than a recurve or a longbow. But I might be looked at as an elitists we couldn't have that now. LOL everyone needs to blow steam sometimes Rob, its good we here at the Gang have broad shoulders. I am always tolerant of other people’s positions unless it’s not how I position my beliefs. LOL
I think you helped me with getting supplies for our troop if I remember correctly, all 26 boys made their own longbow and arrows, how cool is that. Anyway thanks for your support of our Boy Scouts and your support her on the TradGang.
   

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Traditional-Archer:
Mr. DiStefano this is what I read. when someone says we don't that means all.

 

quote:BUT, i do NOT want anyone reading through trad gang posts to think WE (trad gang) endorse crossgun hunting during archery season. we don't.

That is OK it is just a misunderstanding of that statement, If it were personal I wouldn't want any other tool or weapon being used in any season other than a recurve or a longbow. But I might be looked at as an elitists we couldn't have that now. LOL everyone needs to blow steam sometimes Rob, its good we here at the Gang have broad shoulders. I am always tolerant of other people’s positions unless it’s not how I position my beliefs. LOL
I think you helped me with getting supplies for our troop if I remember correctly, all 26 boys made their own longbow and arrows, how cool is that. Anyway thanks for your support of our Boy Scouts and your support her on the TradGang.
       

[Bonebuster]

Michigan allowed "full inclusion" of Crossbows several years ago now.

To say that it has changed our archery season is an understatement.

Bowhunting is what I do, and my year revolves around it. In 2014, I travelled around and hunted throughout Michigan, spending time hunting in the S.E. Lower Penninsula, the N.W. Lower, the North Central Lower, and the North East Lower. All of my hunting was on public land. I ran across LOTS of "Bowhunters". I didn`t keep track of exact numbers, but it was in the hundreds. In all the other "bowhunters" I came across while hunting, only ONE was using a conventional compound bow. Read that again...ONE.

My observation has been this...Crossbows are used almost exclusively by everyone I encountered on public land in 2014. "Bowhunter" numbers are up despite claims by the DNR that they are down. And our deer populations are a mere shadow of the mid 2000`s. (and deer numbers in 2005 were down from years before).

Whenever I felt comfortable I asked WHY the other hunters chose a crossgun and if they are new to bowhunting.

In EVERY instance they responded that they were compound converts, and the reason they chose crossguns is because of the "extended range" and the ease of use.

EVERYONE claims crossguns are no more effective than compounds and this statement is TOTALLY false!  Totally!

The DNR claims Crossguns are used by a small percentage of "bowhunters"...this is a total falsehood. By my observance, and that of most everyone else, crossguns are used by as much as 90% of the "bowhunters" here in Michigan.

If it weren`t for the fact that the Michigan DNR seems intent on the eradication of deer in Michigan, the crossgun success rate would certainly be an issue.

The local politicians that are bed with the crossgun lobby here defend the motion with the "they should have their place just like you." What are they a different species?  The reality is from some that I have witnessed, that claim to have sore shoulders so they have to use crossguns, is that during the gun season they are the worst of the worst for trespassing flying around like they are nuts chasing deer with their pickups and taking every short cut that they can.  Another crossgunner went so far as to put up illegal wood tree stands that were barely nailed in, so anyone that was invading HIS turf on public land would fall when the stand gave out. I knocked them down, took the wood home and burned it. For those that claim that we all have to get along because we are all hunters, BULL, those that I have witnessed except for one elderly gentleman are all slobs and have no business hunting anything with anything.

[Ron Vought]

paven -

Well said. We are seeing the same type of activity here in PA with gun hunting mentality. I think the crossgun inclusion may backfire on the PGC and bowhunters of PA. They are looking at the number of bucks being taken prior to the rut now by archery hunters and the crossgun is supposedly the main driver. Curious on how they will handle this from a deer management/biology standpoint...Will they shorten the season or exclude the crossguns. Only time will tell.

Ron

[Krex1010]

Ron.....I see that the PA game commission is going to lengthen the archery season in a few wmu's. I believe making bucks legal in the September portion of the season and adding a week to the end. Granted this will be in the wmu's that have high deer numbers and low public access. Is there genuine concern in the game commission about the archery season harvest? I'm on the record in this thread as not being against crossbows in general, I don't care if someone else takes a shortcut AS LONG as the practice doesnt significantly affect population numbers and result in shorter seasons. Where did you see the game commission is reviewing archery seasons? Id like to follow that closely.  I'm not defending crossbows with this post.....I am just very interested in your comments about reviewing the archery harvest.

[Ron Vought]

When they implement something in the Special Regulations section in PA that means we are trying something to determine an outcome. Yes I did talk to someone that indicated to me that they are watching the impact the crossgun is having on the deer herd which I would expect them to do considering bowhunters are now being looked at as a deer management tool. Bowhunters of PA have never really been looked at as a deer management tool until the crossgun came along.

Ron

[Krex1010]

Well I would hope they do keep an eye on crossbow's effect on the overall deer harvest.  As for bowhunters not being a management tool....maybe not across the state, but where I live, bowhunters are the only management tool, there are not many places a fellow can take a firearm legally around here and its been that way for the last 15-20 years.

[Ron Vought]

I hope the PGC uses common sense by eliminating the crossgun from archery versus shortening the season if there becomes deer management issues.

Ron

[Krex1010]

i agree with you there Ron

[Greg Szalewski]

We just got the numbers on Wisconsin"s first xgun season.
vert. bows 54,810
xgun 26,891
That is 32.91% of the total bow harvest. Not a bad start. It did not make for a bigger take than last year though. Keep in mind that gun kill was down also.

[ChuckC]

Thanks Greg.  
Some very important figures (to me) are not present.  What percent success rate were enjoyed by both groups ?  or at least, how many Xgun tags were sold vs how many bow tags were sold and we can do the math.
ChuckC

[papawoody]

Id like to know the tags sold vs. the hunter success. I for one hunt a very heavily hunted piece of Wisconsin public, and I had seen more guys with xguns, than I did deer! Having experienced the same area in the past, I thought I was in the shot gun season! Seeing the totals, are encouraging thou.  If the numbers are higher next year, we have a fighting chance to let the sunset clause take affect.