Giving Up a Dream, What to do?

[tippit]

Nate, I'm 62 and living my dream by hunting out of state at least 4-5 times a year.  If I'd bought points at your age...these would definitely be the golden years.  Go for it!  Doc

[Eastern fisher]

That's nuts.  At one time hunting used to be a poor mans sport.  How times have changed..

[hunt it]

Life is short, dream long hard and often! Never give up! Where there's a will there's a way make your dreams come true. He who dies with the biggest debt wins!

[Nate Fikkert]

Wow,

What a response!  First thanks for all the encouragement.  Second, I want to touch on a few things.  I didn't want to start a politcal debate, but, I too don't agree with the feds capping prices.  Game and fish dep. don't have enough money as it is, and now they are being forced to managed endangered species, and other hot topic issues.  They need to "own" the wildlife.  However, $2000+ for a sheep tag and $100 per year just to play the game, COME ON!

Rick I feel your pain, and we have talked.  You know my offer still stands, and you can hunt more than does.  I am more in favor of the non-refundable license than a $100 point that doesn't even let me fish in Wyoming.  I can get more behind a system like Utah or Arizona where you buy a license but you could technically still hunt something in that state.  I know it doesn't do you much good if you have to travel 1000 miles to hunt grouse.  I agree with SteveO, as long as it is a true points system I should draw.  It may be worth looking into New Mexico or Montana.  At least in Montana you get a bonus point and the tag is only $755.

Mitch, back at you.  And thanks to all of you who I know and don't know for your opinions.  Truly a great site!  Keep up this great discussion.

I still don't know what to do though,

Nathan

[Kevin Bahr]

Steve O says, "So, you put in for 23 more years, by then the lic will be $3300. So you have $5600 in it now. By then, the Alberta Bighorn hunts will be $50000...so you are at least $44,000 ahead."  
Wow Steve, will you do my taxes for me, HAHAHA!

Seriously Nate, if it's your dream, go for it man.  I know you are a young man, just starting a family and don't know or want to know your financial situation.  But Steve is right, $100 in the grand scheme of things won't even make a ripple in a very large bucket.  
If I had all the money back that I've spent on Alaska tags and travel, I could buy one of those "governor's tags" and go on a sheep hunt.  But then I wouldn't have had the awesome experience of going to Alaska 9 times...
If it's worth dreaming, it's worth pursuing.  
Or, better yet, you can come to the PBS Banquet and end up going home with a New Zealand tahr hunt or an African adventure or...the possibilities are endless!

[Steve O]

Nate,

If you still don't know what to do, you are not a good listener...

Don't count on MT...I know quite a few guys that are going on year 43 to draw a sheep tag and they are residents.

[Nate Fikkert]

SteveO,

I understand what you are saying.  I guess it depends on who I am listening to, or not listening to.  Kevin, if I spend money on the banquet this year, there goes all my application money!  I do know what you are all saying.  Dreams are dreams, you can't quit.  In all actuality I think I know what I have to do, now I just have to figure out how.  Maybe someday I will have a story to put on this site.

Thanks again everyone,

Nathan

[steadman]

Nate buddy, keep at it!! Hundred bucks is a lot of money, but you still have a chance. I would keep at it, and when you draw I will come up and be your spotter. I know the WY thing. The price hike kept me from elk this year. Talk with you soon.

[Jedimaster]

I've read along here with interest and everybody has a valid point based on their experience and convictions. After considering this some today, I know what I would do. If there are yet to be limits and fees on photographs, I'd go and take my camera. I'd hike the same mountains, stalk the same game, breath the same air and the "trophies" I took would be worth every penny. Then I'd take the money I saved and put it on what I (personal opinion here) consider to be a more "tangible" dream. Maybe another big game hunt, maybe a nice bow or two. Maybe another photo excursion with the kids.

I'll never be able to justify those prices for myself. My grand-dad didn't get to go, my dad won't either. They didn't miss it, I don't think I will as much as I once thought.

[Nate Fikkert]

Jedi,

I thought I had things all figured out, until your post.  Lot of good wisdom there, but what else would you expect from a Jedi.

Ryan, thanks man, I appreciate it.  Same offer here.

Nathan

[MW]

Nate

You and Ryan better not leave me out!  Hiking up and down cliffs with a pack eating too little hiking too much all to get bigger pack for the hike out.  I would not want to miss it.

I think Jedi has a point.  We all have different goals in hunting and I think that's great.  Right not I have no desire to hunt African game but I love it that some guys do and apreciate seeing the pictures and hearing the stories.  What I'm trying to say is if its your dream follow it!

Mitch

[jon]

Nate,

If it's pics you want, I live up Petty Creek in Montana. See Sheep on the hillsides every day on my commute. Send me your email and I'll ship you a couple of pics. I guess I'm too dumb to figure out this photo shop site or I'd post them here. You can reach me at [email protected].

Jon

[Jedimaster]

Jon, that's awfully cool to see and nice of you to send pictures. I think if I was Nate it would only stoke the fire hotter. I gotta experience it! The pictures would be proof and a reminder of my dream.

I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from going to hunt if the hunt is what they want. I wouldn't want to live without a dream and this ain't a photography site, but... You can go and do all the same things and just not pack out meat. Conversely, you can take a chance on not going at all. I don't know if I make sense but it's all about what's important to the individual.

[Rick McGowan]

Man I see why the average credit card debt in this country is over $10K now. Its not just $100, its just $100 for a POINT, the only thing that POINT does is keep you from sliding farther backward in comparison to the others that sent in the $100. When WY changed it from $7 to $100 thats almost a 1500% increase(same as Utah, probably a coincidence!). Do you believe if they have the guts to raise in that much, that in a couple years it won't be $200 or $500 or maybe $1000? Those are much smaller percentages than they just did. I realize that states need money to manage wildlife and I have a pretty big pile of old licences and tags here, that shows I have no problem with paying my share, BUT when they make HUGE increases, that ONLY affect nonresidents and they put that money into the general fund and NOT into wildlife, then I do have a serious problem with it. WY was taking in a MILLION $$$$ a year in nr sheep and goat app fees BEFORE this increase, how much do you think it will be now? Maybe I will just keep my money here in GA where a nr can shoot 12 deer, 3 turkeys, 1 bear and unlimited hogs for $135!

[Dave Lay]

Wow, thats a buttload of money over time and not knowing what the tag and hunt its self will cost .. BUT only you know your situation money wise, But with a family to support and responsibilities outside huntin, I would have to really look at it. I have had to make some local hunts more of a adventure by backpacking into wilderness areas etc, after whitetails and bear because I just couldnt swing a out of state elk hunt. These local hunts proved to be very memorable, maybe not so much as a dream sheep hunt, but . BUT I am one for chasing a dream.. and NEVER giving up. but ya got to know what ya can and cannot do being realistic..jedimaster makes some great points, go do it with a camera, and experience the same hunt, , only diffrent LOL!  good luck, hope ya can work it out.

[Steve H.]

Nate,

Doing a bit more review, here is what I would do in your situation:

We know the current rules and you are applying as a NR.  I have seen these rules ebb and flow and morph into something else each decade.

You are only 30 and already have 7 points which is 3-5 points off what it takes to actually be in the runing for the 75% to the tags.  Yes that number will creep up each year but.....

....MANY people will drop out, die, get too old, or draw.  MANY will stop applying this year.

Since I have the advantage of knowing you are a "profedinal", even though money might be tight today it will loosen up "tomorrow".  A hundred bucks at 30 is more like a thousand a decade and a half later.

I would apply this year cause hey you may draw on chance but I think at your young age with 7 points you are too far down the trail to back out now.

If it were something more like a Utah situation I would tell you the opposite as 1 in 1,100 for $75 is just moronic unless you already needed a license (as a distant NR).

I cringe when I see what it takes to draw a moose tag or the best sheep tags.  There was ONE year I didn't pay attention to WY and they slipped this system in on me.  Man was I p!ssed!  I suspected I would NEVER catch up to the folks with maximum points and thought I would forever be -1.  I was wrong about that, I would be in the money in ANY unit now.  I have nothing unfortunately.

[steadman]

Mitch, I don't think we would do that. We need someone one pack the food    LOL! Nate after thinking about it a little more, I would continue to put in, but that would be the only "big" hunt I would put in for out of state. Start getting your points here for UT for a different critter. You never know when lady luck might smile on you.

[Steve O]

Rick,

I believe you are just a little off.  At $5/$7 bucks, Utah and Wyoming were not even covering their processing costs for the draws.  That probably has a lot to do with being part of the "government" and how they source and do things, but they were NOT making any millions from the draw.

There is no good way around it...if a guy has a dream to hunt sheep, he is going to have to spend some coin.  There are LONG odds, but somebody does draw or win the raffles.  I myself know guys who have won sheep hunt raffles, drawn an NM desert sheep tag, drawn a CO desert sheep tag, drawn on their FIRST (yes, that is correct FIRST) application in Wyoming for a Bighorn Ram, and many others that the odds are THOUSANDS to one.  

If your dream is to hunt sheep, the is NO other chice.  Unfortunately for my pocketbook, that is one of my dreams...

I don't know why I keep trying to talk Nate into putting in...he is my competition!!!

[Madpigslayer]

turn you 'dreams' into 'goals' and simply work towards them. It is funny what you can go if you simply dont take 'no' for an answer.

[Rick McGowan]

Steve O ok maybe I didn't say it correctly, but WY TOOK IN roughly a million dollars. It dos'nt cost all that much to run the apps through a computer, but somebody made money I am sure. I have a hard time believeing that they need to  raise the ante 1428% to break even. All the excuses made don't add up to the fact that all of these states have realized the easiest way for them to make money is to ripoff nr's. Unfortunately they are right, most guys will just say "oh well, there is nothing I can do" and they will do just what the ripoff states are counting on them to do, so they will continue to do it and it will continue to get worse. I for one will not support the ripoff, I won't spend ANY of my own money in these states, hunting, vacation or otherwise, also, I sometimes have a say in where hundreds of thousands of business dollars are spent directly and possibly millions indirectly. I am not going recommend sending it to any state that makes a habit abusing nr's as in my experience, if someone will rip you off once, they will rip you off as many times as you let them.
Steve O and Nate, thanks for the suggestions on hunting in Utah and please don't take offence, but it just wouldn't be very smart for me to spend hundreds or more in travel expenses to go to Utah, just so I didn't waste $65 on a license.:^)