Giving Up a Dream, What to do?

[Duckbutt]

My best friend just got a sheep in WY with less than ten points.  Hang in there.  I wish I would have been buying those points before they went to $100.  I'll probably keep working towards a CO archery tag and maybe someday be able to afford a Dall trip.  Kind of like Chad said, lots of good hunting to be had with capital required for sheep chances.  Glad I don't have the sheep bug as bad as some I know.

[Rick McGowan]

Hey Ray, where can I find some of those just,"stand and stare" creatures? I've actually been to the end of the world and everything ran like the dickens when it saw me! When I first went to Australia years ago, I told them they should release desert bighorns there, as I thought it was a perfect place for them. To bad they didn't, they are probably thinking the same thing if they new what it cost to hunt them now!

[Holm-Made]

Oops, I reread Nate's first post.  I originally thought he said it was 1000.00 a year for a point and he thought it would take 10 more years to have enough points.  10,000.00 plus cost of license, hunt and money already spent.

I apologize, it blew my mind when I thought the cost of the hunt would be upwards of 20 grand.  I didn't have all the facts when I posted.  Chad

[Lenny Stankowitz]

"no offense, Chad...but there really is something about being in a place where you 'feel' like you might be the only human who's ever set foot there

To see critters who instead of running the other way at the mere sight of you stand and stare because you are the first human they have ever seen

To hear the wolf's lonely call at night, to see the aurora borealis at 3am and wonder at the sight

To catch a fish on every cast that's bigger than the last one and that tastes so wonderful cooked right there on the shore at noon

To fly in a float plane

To meet natives who speak little if any english but who share the common bond of predator with you

To see country you have read of since childhood and dreamed of ever since

And if you get to share that with someone you becomes your friend, or who is already a friend?

Those are a few reasons why some heed the call..its not wrong if you don't..but its why some do."


Not one of those things requires a costly tag, multiple preference points or a lottery system...only if you want to posess the carcass.  

I for one admire you Nate, for having your priorities where they are.  As much as I LOVE to hunt, I also truly believe that when it comes time for me to check out, the most important things in my life will have been my family and friends.  Hunting may well be a part of it, but where and what creatures will be of virtually no consequence.

Lenny

[Ray Hammond]

right on, Lenny

That's what makes it even possible for those who want to to hunt sheep- if all of us did go for it, the tags would cost 1,000,000 and the preference points would be 10,000 a year.

I for one am glad people like to play guitar, water ski, do karaoke, chase women, drink liquor and play poker- it keeps them too busy to hunt so the rest of us can enjoy ourselves.

Some of us work to balance everything- its not a zero sum game- our families don't HAVE to suffer because we choose to hunt.

[Jedimaster]

My family WOULD suffer if I pursued hunting with the passion some guys do. I don't play guitar, water ski, do karaoke, chase women, drink liquor or play poker. My family would suffer for all those too.
I just don't know about you guys but I can't feel any shame in being a boring old dad with a 60 hour a week job. Kids taking up 90% of the rest. I don't figure I CAN'T go, I just don't want to. Same reason I take my family with me on most of my hunts knowing the odds are going way down. I work to balance everything too - and I think I found it!
It's not entirely that my family would have to suffer. I guess you could say I would suffer.
BTW - If anyone on here want's to feel true loneliness and being where others haven't been, I can take you out to Honey Island Swamp for a week. Me and the kids like it there too.

I like seeing you guys out there doing what you love. Post pictures. I do what I love too. Alot more I could say, but some things words can't express.

Nate: what ever you decide will be the right decision. Not because of what we say, but your words alone speak volumes about your character, your concerns and your desires. There is no shame in following your dreams, even if your dream changes, it's yours alone.

[Jack Shanks]

Rick, I've had similar experiences with animals standing and staring as Ray mentions. By their actions I'm quite certain they had never seen a human before. Happened to me twice in one day while hunting Mt goats in BC a couple years ago.  One billy actually approached to within fifteen yards or so of my guide and I after he spotted us from a distance.

 Chad, your not far off on the cost of a Bighorn hunt in Canada now days. For those of us that have little chance of drawing a tag in one of the western states it might be our only option if we want to go on a Bighorn hunt in our lifetime. Most outfitters in Alberta and BC are charging around 25K for that experience.

[Nate Fikkert]

Jedi,

Your posts are full of wisdom, and I appreciate them.  

It really comes down to priorities.  Do I want to push on with the sheep dream?  Perhaps, maybe I decide I would rather go to Texas and hunt pigs for 5 to 10 straight winters.

This has been quite the thread, I really never expected the response.  I guess, when you bring up hunting dreams people get passionate.  If we weren't passionate we wouldn't scrimp, sacrifice, save, and dream.  We wouldn't spend days hot, cold, wet, thirsty.  Sit in treestands for hours on end, chase one more bugle, glass the same mountainside one more time.  You all know what I mean.

KEEP DREAMING!

Nathan

[LC]

Wow, once again lots of good input and thoughts here. We are talking dream hunts here, this particular hunt is sheep, but others on here have dreams of other spiecies. Like a comedian once said "I'm glad we are not all alike, if we were you all would be chasing my wife!"So I guess the truth is it's good some guys priorites is to work his life away and hardly ever hunt or spend all his time and money chasing dreams all over the country cause the woods around me would be crowed. Alot of my friends get down right mad or are jealous at me for hunting as much as I do but they will dump money on stuff I think is a waste.I honestly know several friends that every year spend tons of money on the newest latest hunting gizmos getting ready for bow season and yet get out MAYBE  two weekends the entire season. But every stop at a convience store and they will buy 10 bucks in scratch off lottery tickets. I agree with Ray these guys need to stop belly aching and face the facts. But I guess I'm alot like Holm Made as I get to hunt ALOT and it sure recharges my battery well enough FOR ME! But now adays most of that hunting is within 4 to 6 hrs of my home. But like I said earlier I use to hunt far and wide and have experienced everything Ray mentioned. Funny thing is most of them I've experienced close to home also.
 
 Another side of this story and it happens all too often is some poor smudge works two jobs, deprieves his family of his time and vacation time goes on his dream hunt and its the biggest farce ever. This happens alot even to some "famous" hunters who did their homework, heck there was even a article in TB not to long ago just like this.
 But I kinda gotta disagree whole heartdly with Ray on it's not becoming a rich mans sport. I've read a couple articles lately, TJ editioral latest TB, Thomas another time, about a couple guys who just completed the grand slam traditionaly. Like them,my hats off to the guys but it's not my priority. Funny both say the reason is money and you'd think both have plenty IF it was there priority. Heck I'm probably as poor as anyone on here with two kids in college but if I wanted too bad enough I believe I could probably  made a good stab at it  myself if I'd kept at it. I still enjoy reading about their hunts just ain't my cup of tea.

 Land leasing, license and tags etc is taking this sport away for the common man now adays.Hunter numbers are dropping every year now for lots of reasons but some of the reasons are opportunities to hunt and the expense of it for the average joe.I'm not complaining Ray cause I work hard for what I got, have never leased land or belonged to some  private hunting club but I've got more private ground to hunt in several states than I have time to hunt and believe me I've got lots of time! I've traded home made knifes and TD recurve bows for some incredible hunts that I've probably spent less on than some folks do in eating out in a week. I love to hunt. Sure have enjoyed  reading all the posts on this thread. Lots of good input. Kinda a passion of mine as I get bored of posts about string silencer placement, best HP string material,best carbon arrow, best broadhead 2 or 4 blade,  etc etc after 35 years of carrying a stick and string around. Sad thing is like I said earlier alot of folks on here post daily about everything related to hunting but never seem to have time, money or ambition to get out and HUNT! Now I'm not talking about the folks who only  shoots target or just enjoys watching a arrow fly that's fine if thats what blows their hair back,it's just that for me personally I pull the string back with one objective in mind, hunting.

[Ray Hammond]

the most expensive hunts I've ever been on were a 2,950 elk hunt, and a 3,400 caribou hunt. I think you guys are missing the thrust of my arguments...its not how much you spend...its DOING IT that matters.

you do not have to spend money to hunt in a lot of cases. What Nate said was he would have 2500 dollars in a tag and 1000 bucks in bonus points..that to me is not a huge amount of money.

I wanted to hunt private ground around Atlanta for big bucks...they're there...but you just can't get to them without poaching.  I figured out how to start an urban deer hunting program, and went out and got permission to hunt that private ground...for free.

I hunt hogs 12 months a year on thousands of acres in SC....its not my land...and I don't lease it. I met the man who owns it and we became great friends....

I trade hunts with people....I met a man from Tahiti this fall who wanted a whitetail deer...I helped him scout one out and he was successful..now he wants me to go to New Caledonia as his guest to hunt Rusa stags for two weeks while my wife stays with his as their houseguest in Tahiti!

I hunted pronghorn and mule deer in Wyoming every year for 5 years for the price of a tag, on thousands of acres of private ranches, in the Wyoming National Bowhunt....it didnt cost a lot of money, and the quality of the hunting was awesome.

I use Amex card to buy gas groceries, entertainment and we then have miles to get airline tickets for nothing. There are ways to keep your dreams alive without sacrificing your family's treasure, or not being a good parent.

My comment about karaoke, water skiing etc weren;t directed at anyone in particular, it wasn't being derogatory or smart alecky.....but there's something to be said about someone who cares enough about one thing to invest his energies in that one direction..its one of the reasons hunter numbers are not growing- kids have too many things to spend their time on-computer games, paintball, organized sports, 4 wheelers and dirt bikes..the list goes on forever.

They become masters of nothing, because they are drawn in too many directions. Sacrifice comes in many forms-its required, along with discipline, to get really good at most things.Look at Tiger Woods...his dad probably didn't have him playing football, tennis, baseball, and hunting much when he was growing up. He got pretty good at that golf thing though.

[Lenny Stankowitz]

Ray:

I don't disagree with much of what you say.  Very little actually.  

I have been on quite a few different hunts, for a number of different species.  Many of the hunts I was successful in taking an animal and some I was not.  

Looking back, I have come to realize, at least for me, that the joy in these hunts came from the people I was with, not the animals killed.  I can honestly say that I have as much fun at our annual "carp camp" as I do at bear camp in Canada or deer camp in Pike County IL.  I've never hunted sheep or Caribou but I bet it would be the same.

Lenny

[George D. Stout]

Hey.....I'm a guitar player 8^).  And....I also hunt with a bow.

[Ray Hammond]

that's what I'm talking about, Lenny.

Georgie, you're an exception though, a phenom for sure..plus you are a fantastic poet!!!!

I vote George Stout for America's next poet laureate.

[Jack Shanks]

Nate,

 Lots of different opinions here. I guess it all boils down to only "YOU" can answer the question.

Lenny,  Nothing wrong with only taking pictures. In fact on a lot of my hunting trips that is all I did. Each time I have gone I had a tag in my pocket and a bow in my hand though. I just haven't gotten to the point where I'm satisfied to train for a year, fly to a distant place, climb a mountain and put myself in situations where my next step very well could be my last just to take pictures. But to each his own and if you can enjoy that more power to you. It certainly would cut down on some of the expense.

 On more than one occasion after a dangerous or miserable situation I've had a guide turn to me and say "just think you paid good money to do this". In every case I have always gotten a good laugh out of it.... Because, I'm living my dreams.

[Jeff Holchin]

Nate, here is my answer to your original question, since I was in your shoes and had the same dream.  Years ago I determined that only 2 western states offered a real chance for me to draw a bighorn sheep tag (WY and CO) because of their point system, while other states offered much lower chances.  

With the big price increase in WY and only 7 points for sheep (and moose), I decided to drop out for sheep with 7 points but continue for moose in that state.  I also put in for sheep in Montana, Arizona and NM most years.  However, to increase my odds in the one remaining "good" state, I began applying for a ewe tag as a second choice and drew that tag last year in only my second try.  So I realized my dream of bowhunting bighorn sheep and didn't compromise my chance for drawing a ram tag.  As somebody else noted, you could probably draw a ewe tag in a year or two if you put that as your first choice but unfortunately the cost is high ($1750+).

Another of my dreams is to bowhunt mountain goats - that should happen one of these years in CO.  Yet another dream is to bowhunt Shiris moose and that should happen in the next year in WY.  Don't give up on your bowhunting dream(s).  It just takes some careful planning and applying.

Final advice, since you are so close to Idaho - put in there for sheep too and use that NR license you must buy as an excuse to scout out areas for your future sheep hunt.  Better than the WY point option IMO and you get to hunt more.
  I hope this is useful.

[Nate Fikkert]

Jeff,

Good advice, and I am leaning along those lines.  I am in the same boat as you in Wyoming, however, I may give up the moose thing.  I certainly would like to hunt moose someday, but for the cost I could probably do an "adventure" hunt in Canada for not a whole lot more money.  

I also would like to hunt elk in Arizona someday and am thinking in order to get the most "bang for the buck" there I will start applying for sheep, elk, and antelope in that state.  I am also close enough to use that non-refundable license on a javelina/upland bird hunt as well.

Jeff: Let me know what you do for moose in Wyoming.  Unless you have your heart set on an area I know some good options in Western Wyoming that you could possibly draw with seven points.  I have seen some really good bulls in these areas as well.  PM me if you would like more information.

Again, lots of good ideas here.  Today I added up all the species and states I apply for and would like to apply for.  The total capital needed to apply for everything I want to was $1835, with about $1300 of that being refundable.  That is quite a bit of non-refundable money.  I may have to tweak it a bit, but it helps to get it all down on paper and look it over.

Nathan

[Jack Shanks]

I apply in most of the states that I'm able for sheep and a few states for other species.Last year it seems like I had $10,000 out in application fees with several hundred of that being nonrefundable.

[Nate Fikkert]

WOW,

$10,000, I know I can't afford that!  Those numbers include applying in three states for sheep (just buying a point in Wyoming), Elk in 3 states, antelope in 2 states, deer in 1, moose in 1, and goat in one.  Pretty well rounded list and should have me drawing some premium elk tags in the next few years, which really is my favorite hunt.

Nathan

[Jack Shanks]

Nate,

 At one time I loved to elk hunt and went most years. I think the thing I liked most about it most was hunting in the wilderness areas for days on end without seeing another person except a member of my hunting group. As more and more people started hunting these places it lost some of it's appeal and I quit going. I started hunting different species in other far off places looking for that wilderness experience.

I started applying for preference points in Colorado thinking one day I would return there and do a DIY elk hunt. I have fourteen points there now and could probably draw a tag in one of the best areas. In the next couple of years I'm sure I will do that but right now sheep, mt goats and where they live is on my mind.

[Jeff Holchin]

PM sent, Nate.  I like your idea about AZ too, because with that NR tag you could experience some awesome rutting mule and coues deer hunting with OTC tags right now.  I did just that in late January of 2005 and had a blast (except for the illegal aliens but that is another story).  Regarding the money needed for such applications, I guess it wasn't smart but for years I borrowed many thousands of dollars to apply, much to my wife's dismay.