Ash vs. Cedar

[Wudstix]

I shot tapered Cedar mostly with 160 grain heads.  Parrallel Ash of the same spine does not seem to shot as well/consistently with the same weight heads.  Somewhere i heard that the heavier weight shaft needed a lighter head. (?)  Can anyone shed some light on this for me.  I like the physical weight of Ash for hogs, but don't want to give up accuracy.

[John P]

I've found that when I shoot ash or any hard wood I need to go up in spine or like you stated down in head weight.I believe it has to do with the recovery property of wood.The soft woods recover faster than the hard woods.This is'nt in stone its just what I've found from shooting them both. John

[Wudstix]

Thanks.  That mirrors what I think I was told before.  I'm thinking perhaps 125-135 grain heads should bring it on line.  With 160 grain heads they are all over the place at 15-20 yards.  I'll test the theory at 3-D this weekend.

[John P]

Let me know how it turns out!! John

[Jacko]

Ash does recover from paradox a little slower than cedar . As your cedar shafts are tapered as well they will recover faster than a parrellel shaft .

I have not shot a lot of Ash shafts [ 1 set of 3 ] but have shot a lot of ramin which recover from paradox slowly and found they recovered faster , shot more accuratly when I tapered or barrelled the shafts .

As well a big Forward of centre above 18% by using a 15" taper instead of the common 9" long taper with a minimum 160 grain point was a major contributor to the improvement in accuracy

All the info you need to taper your own arrows is covered elsewhere on this website . Happy searching and experimenting , It really is easy and the knowledge gained will help you no end . regards Jacko

[Killdeer]

When I first started making ash arrows, the supplier told me that I needed a  lower spine due to the heavier weight of the shaft compared to cedar. Tapered arrows will give better results with a higher spine than parallel shafting.

Why don't you call a couple-three suppliers and discuss this with them?
I want a report!    

If the arrows are giving you an "all over the place" experience instead of grouping right or left, then I would thnk that the problem lay elsewhere than the spine. Check the straightness of the shaft, and trueness of nock and point. A larger diameter shaft could mean rethinking your nocking point as well, if porpoising is a factor here.

Killdeer  

[chesapeakeblend]

I would like to hear more about this.  I shoot Cedar and was about to place an order for Ash shafts this morning.  

Maybe I will go with the tapered Ash since I shoot parallel Cedars.

[RamiusEng]

I am going to get some Ash arrows.   I normally get 65-70# in tapered POC or Sitka.  I plan to put a heavy head on the arrow.  So maybe a 70-75# in Ash would be better???

[George D. Stout]

Me thinks there is more to this than just over-spining.  I shot parallel ash arrows with no trouble from my longbow a few couple years ago.
They were spined to my bow....55/60....And I used glue on Bear Razorheads.   Get them from a reputable seller who really knows how to spine them correctly, and make sure you are aligning the nock with that.

[Jeremy]

When I switched to ash shafts I had to go up one spine group.  Been shooting ash exclusively for 5 years now  
I agree with Killy and GDS - if the arrows are going all over the place there's something else at fault.  Anytime I've shot overspined arrows (or underspined for that matter) they group together, just not where I want them to.  Even with ridiculously over spined arrows they group together (try shooting 70-75 spine out of a 46# not-even-close to centershot bow and see where they go  :D )

[Onehair]

It could be pilot error. Many times when I am trying out new shafts I can't keep my head down because I just have to see the shot.

[dnovo]

I'm on my 5th set of ash arrows. The first set I made up flew like darts. Picked another 2 dozen shafts and made them up. Inconsistent as heck. Rechecked spine, straightness and anything else I could think of. Finally gave up on some of them. I got about 12 good arrows out of 24. Almost swore off ash but made some more. Took a dozen and tapered them,had them weighed within 4 grain spread and they shoot great. I believe tapering ash helps a lot, but also think ash is more finicky. I shoot the same spine weight as my cedars with a 135 or 150 grn broadhead

[Wudstix]

By "all over the place" I meant high and low, as I tried to adjust my 'look' at the targets.  I found that dropping the point weight a bit helped out.  These are arrows I traded for and they shoot OK from my center shot MOAB at close range (10+ yards), at 15-20+ they were not so good.  Thanks for all the inputs.  I'll post again after some more arrows down range.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I started with 65-70# Cedar arrows cut 29"BOP, Now I use ASH 60-65# cut 27"BOP and they fly way better plus are way quiter coming from the bow.

[Wudstix]

So less spine than Cedars for hardwoods like Ash.  What about more point weight?

[AkDan]

for what it's worth.....the best thing you can do is buy a known set of test shafts instead of trying to fight the one set you already have....

[Bjorn]

Ash shoots beautifully-tapered or parallel; at least that has been my experience. For me, I spined them the same as cedar shafting. But if it were borderline I would opt for stiffer if it were much heavier in grains.

[Greg Skinner]

I've made a lot of ash arrows in years past. Tapered shafts seemed to fly a little bit better for me. I made up a number of arrows from several different spine groups, cut them to the length I wanted, put 160 grain points on (broadhead and field) and then shot them out of my various bows until I found the group that shot the best.  Then I made a note for future reference for that bow.  I always weighed and spined each finished arrow and grouped accordingly.  Sometimes the lower end spine of one group went better with the higher end of the next group down.  I really like the way ash shoots, but as with anything that's not totally manufactured, there are idiosyncrasies from shaft to shaft. It seemed that I always had a couple of arrows in each group that didn't shoot very well no matter what I did, and several others that were outstanding.  I weighed, spun, spined and could find no apparent difference.  The inconsistent arrows went into the "cat hunting" stack.

[Jeremy]

wudstix,
mysticguido's ash shafts are stiffer than his cedars.  Shaft length plays a big part of an arrow's dynamic spine.

The dynamic spine on his cedars is 60-65#... the dynamic spine on his ash are 65-70# (assmuming 125gr tips on each)

[Dave Rice]

I taper my ash shafts and shoot the same spine as my untapered cedars. But, I've found that my bows are pretty tolerant of spine in sitka and cedar, much less so with hardwoods.

I've attributed some flight issues of hardwood arros to slower recovery from paradox due to their higher mass--sitka and cedar are pretty stiff for their weight. OTOH, that's just my speculation, ymmv.