The Iron Mistress

[Ric O'Shay]

Way back when I was a kid, Warner Bros. made a movie with Alan Ladd as Jim Bowie. I know the knife used in the movie was a prop. Ironically, the Iron Mistress knife has a very unique story that makes it worthy of the mysteries surrounding the historical knife Jim Bowie owned.
As a movie prop, owned by the studio, the Iron Mistress was placed into storage for awhile but was later rented to others to make the following movies, John Wayne's "The Alamo", Republic Pictures "The Last Command" with Sterling Hayden as Jim Bowie, and even two television series, "The Adventures of Jim Bowie" and Walt Disney's "Davy Crockett, King of the Wild Frontier". The legend among Bowie collectors of the elusive movie prop is almost as great as the legend of Jim Bowie's historical knife.

 

 

I also know there are a miriad of stories floating around about the blacksmith James Black actually making the famed knife to Jim Bowie's specifications using some "magical" steel in his forge. Or the movies fight scene depicting the real Sandbar fight where Bowie uses the knife for the first time.

According to the movie, the specs are:
Blade length: 11 3/8"
Blade width: 2 1/2"
Overall length: 16 5/8"
Blade thickness: 3/8" (Because Bowie said he "Didn't want it to break under any circumstances.")

So, any knifemakers out there that would be interested in making this knife for me? PM so we can talk.

Danny

[Lin Rhea]

Danny,
        I currently am employed at the Historic Arkansas Museum, where there is on display what some claim to be the original Iron Mistress. It's often called the "Bart Moore Bowie" Here is a link to a photo of the knife.
  web page  

Whether or not it is I dont know, but I must say the movie depiction is somewhat different. The Bart Moore Bowie is displayed with a 1952 Iron Mistress movie poster and an original script of the movie and copies of Alan Ladd's contract with Warner Bros.
     There may be no way of knowing some of the actual facts surrounding some of these knives, but we at least have provenance for some and unmistakable maker's marks on others. If you get a chance look up the museum's site and take a look. Lin

[Ric O'Shay]

Lin -
This one is the 1955 movie version of what they thought the knife looked like. The poster with Alan Ladd does show a different knife. However, the promo for the TV series shows what appears to be the above knife.

 

I did take a look at the museum website. To be almost 200 years old, those are very nice.
Danny

[Lin Rhea]

Danny,
       The knife in the 55 version is what a lot of people envision as the Iron Mistress. No doubt, it will probably always hold that title and who could argue for sure FOR or AGAINST it. After all the title was mostly promoted by the movie industry just after the book. The actual knife Jim Bowie carried may never be found or verified.
        The Bart Moore Bowie has documentation as far back as the 1890's but oral tradition as reported by the Moore family states that the knife was found near the Alamo shortly after the famous battle. This does not mean, for certain, that this is the original Bowie Knife, but it may have been owned by Bowie. No one can say. Other written accounts of Bowie's knife state it to have been of a different description as far as length of blade and being guardless. Then again, Bowie could have had more than one knife. Most people do.
      The whole account is fascinating to me. The movie mixed some fiction in and thus caused some confusion, but as a whole, the story is very intriguing. Lin

[skullworks]

This is the knife I had always heard was the one used at the sandbar fight.

 

I guess no one will know for sure!

[PrarrieDog]

Skullworks, Love the looks of that one. Seems to have a New Orleans look to it.

[Lin Rhea]

Skull, That, of course, is a copy. The original of that knife was made 5 or 6 years after the sandbar fight. We only have a written description as to what the original (the one used at the fight) would have looked like. Rezin described it as having a straight blade of 9 inches and no cross guard. More or less looking like a butcher knife. Keep in mind that the sandbar fight happened Sept of 1827.

    That knife is a very nice knife and I sure hope to make one similar someday. Lin

[skullworks]

Of course it is a copy! LOL! I have heard some say that it might have been made by Searles and this was one of his designs. Here is another that looks more like the butcher type knife some refer to.

 

[Lin Rhea]

Skully,
      As far as description goes, that knife is much more likely to have been "the knife", although the date of it's creation may be too late to be it. It fits the description  though. If you can get your hands on the last 3 or 4 issues of Blade Magazine, Dr Jim Batson has written a series of articles on both of the knives you've shown. You certainly are in the neighborhood.
       Something I have to keep in mind is that there were lots of knives in use in those days and nailing down the actual knife used in the fight is going to be a tough sell. James Bowie may have had even another one made by the time of his death in the Alalmo. But with a process of elimination and some more discoveries, it's possible. Lin

[Ric O'Shay]

According to a qoute from Rezin Bowie in The Planters Advocate:
"The first Bowie knife was made by myself in the parish of Avoyelles, in this state (Louisiana), as a hunting knife, for which purpose, exclusively, it was used for many years." After James was attacked, Rezin gave James a knife to carry with him and this knife was the one that JAmes had during the Sandbar Fight. Rezin Bowie said, "The length of the blade was nine and one-quarters inches, its width one and one-half inches, single edged and not curved" …quite different from the Bowie knife as it came to be recognized
 
Rezin P. Bowie, Planters Advocate: August 24, 1838

The Bart Moore knife is a claimant for the title of Bowie's Alamo knife. The Moore family asserts that an old Mexican soldier, who claimed to have participated in the storming of the Alamo, gave the knife to Mr. Moore's grandfather. The soldier supposedly retrieved the knife from where it lay by one of the funeral pyres and had kept it for many years. He offered it to Mr. James F. Moore as payment for a five-dollar debt.

The Moore Knife is a Clip point blade 8-1/4" long with iron furniture and an oak handle that appears to have been replaced. The blade has "J. Bowie" scratched on one side and the initials J.B. on the other. This knife not only claims to be the Alamo Bowie, but also the knife made by Arkansas blacksmith James Black from Bowie's original idea. Black claimed to have made two knives, one as Bowie requested and one of Black's own design. Bowie chose Black's design over his own.
 

[Lin Rhea]

The quote by Rezin Bowie is the only straight forward description of the knife used at the sandbar fight, as far as I know.
   I personally believe that the sandbar fight knife is yet to be found. I believe the Bart Moore Bowie is not it based on the description by Rezen Bowie even though it could possibly have belonged to James Bowie. I think they had several knives and according to historians, they gave and recieved several as gifts throughout this time period. Lin

[tomh]

thanks for the history lesson Lin, I learnt something!