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Author Topic: Making Shear Steel - DUN!  (Read 902 times)

Offline Scott Roush

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Making Shear Steel - DUN!
« on: January 25, 2011, 09:38:00 AM »
I thought some of you may be interested in the process involved with making shear steel since it is the traditional material found in a lot the knives and tools used in early, pioneer America. Shear steel is a method of making high carbon tool steel from wrought iron (pure iron). It was the primary method of making steel in Western society from the Middle Ages up into the mid 19th Century.

I just attended a two day workshop in which I learned the process from Ric Furrer (www.doorcountyforgeworks.com).  If you have access to a good welding forge, just about anybody can do it. Although access to Ric's tools greatly facilitates the process!

The method basically consists of cutting wrought iron plate into manageable sizes.. in this case we had 6-7" long plates each about 1/4". You stack the plates in a square can made of mild steel with what is basically charcoal. You weld the can shut and then soak it in a forge at a good welding heat for... quite a long time... a couple of hours in our case.  You place a 'test strip' of wrought iron into the can through a hole so that you spark test it after a while to see if it is carburized.   This carburizing process basically gives you a very high carbon steel called blister steel. This blister steel is too high in carbon for tool making as well as being very high in silaceous slag so it has to be further refined. These plates are stacked, tack welded together to make a very thick billet 4-5" thick. Not something you want to manage by hand. This billet is then subjected to multiple forge weldings and pressing until you have about 1" thick rectangular billet.  This is then cut up, stacked, tack welded and put through the same process. And then you do it one more time!  These multiple foldings and stackings refine the steel, evenly distribute the carbon and promote nice patterning similar to what Karl is achieving with his san mai he just posted. These natural patterns in the steel are the reason why I'm interested in this.. beyond the idea of making historically correct swords and knives.

Once you've refined three times (as described above), you then forge it out into whatever you want.   The final product is a very shallow hardening, beautifully patterned steel.  I'm not yet sure what Rockwell is attainable... I will make a test knife and harden it before doing anything else.

So here are some pictures of the process:

Here is the can after doing the initial carburizing soak. There is a piece of wrought iron in the picture to show what it looked like before carburizing:

 

Here is a close-up of the blister steel that results from the first step:

 

I didn't get a picture of the pieces tack welded up for welding, but here they are soaking in the forge and getting pressed (the pictures are of the other guys in the class):

 

 

 

Continued:

Offline Scott Roush

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Re: Making Shear Steel - DUN!
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2011, 09:39:00 AM »
Here it is after getting consolidated and pressed down:

 

Here is Ric drawing out the welded billet with his gigantic Nazel hammer:

 

 

And this shows the flattened billet being cut and folded for the second refinement:

 

These pictures illustrate the madness that overcomes you after 8 hours of forge welding:

 

 

So after all this you basically draw it out into a nice rectangular blank that can forged into whatever the heck you want.  I came home with about 5 pounds that needs to be further drawn out... when I get a nice blank I will post a picture.

Hope this was interesting!

Offline DANA HOLMAN

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Re: Making Shear Steel - DUN!
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2011, 09:57:00 AM »
Scott i know very little about forge welding, but i thought you had to have the pieces flat and smoth inorder to weld them, looks like the blisters would create voids/pockets. in the billet, did you grind them down before you stacked them?
Like i said i know very little about it
dana
"When Satan is knocking at your door,
Simply say,

 "Jesus, could you get that for me?"

Offline Scott Roush

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Re: Making Shear Steel - DUN!
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2011, 10:11:00 AM »
I used to think that too Dana.... but flux, heat, soaking time and pressure make up for a lot of sub-perfect prep.

I used to blame welding failures on stuff like that, but I'm now certain it was too little soak time at heat.  Even so... failures happen and there just ain't anything you can do about sometimes. I hear that some people even watch their barometer for good welding days. ;-)

Offline kbaknife

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Re: Making Shear Steel - DUN!
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2011, 11:52:00 AM »
Did you take good notes?
When the last deer disappears into the morning mist,
When the last elk vanishes from the hills,
When the last buffalo falls on the plains,
I will hunt mice for I am a hunter and I must have my freedom.
Chief Joseph

Offline DANA HOLMAN

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Re: Making Shear Steel - DUN!
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2011, 12:04:00 PM »
i have a question, lets say, we are use 1084 and 15n20 to make damascas, what is a good welding temp. and at what degree will the 1084 burn up or start losing carbon,
dana
"When Satan is knocking at your door,
Simply say,

 "Jesus, could you get that for me?"

Offline Scott Roush

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Re: Making Shear Steel - DUN!
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2011, 04:40:00 PM »
I did indeed Karl.  But it's actually pretty dang simple.

Dana... when I started welding with my vertical blown forge, I put a piece of steel in and purposefully tried to burn it to gauge the color of the atmosphere in my forge. I've only been welding wrought iron which needs to be hotter than the steels you mentioned.  Another technique would be to rub two pieces of steel across each other with flux at increasing temperatures until they start to stick to each other.

I don't yet have a thermocouple, so that's how I do things...

Offline kbaknife

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Re: Making Shear Steel - DUN!
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2011, 05:23:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Scott Roush:
I did indeed Karl.  But it's actually pretty dang simple.
 
Then it should be pretty dang simple for you to teach me!   ;)
When the last deer disappears into the morning mist,
When the last elk vanishes from the hills,
When the last buffalo falls on the plains,
I will hunt mice for I am a hunter and I must have my freedom.
Chief Joseph

Offline Scott Roush

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Re: Making Shear Steel - DUN!
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2011, 02:47:00 PM »
Here is the blade I'm forging.... right now the blade is 14" not including tang and will be a Saxon/Viking short sword.. or sax.. or seax. It will be 16" when complete.. as I need to draw out more. They have a straight edge with a 'broke back' point. Not really a hunting knife I know.  Although you could certainly kill a hog with it.

 

Offline Scott Roush

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Re: Making Shear Steel - DUN!
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2011, 02:48:00 PM »
and note brand new Brent Bailey flatter hammer. I have a hammer addiction that can't be cured.

Offline DANA HOLMAN

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Re: Making Shear Steel - DUN!
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2011, 03:21:00 PM »
scott, thats going to be a biggen, keep us posted, and what kind of steel is your block and where did you get it. is that what you use for your anvil?
dana
"When Satan is knocking at your door,
Simply say,

 "Jesus, could you get that for me?"

Offline Scott Roush

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Re: Making Shear Steel - DUN!
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2011, 03:42:00 PM »
Yeah Dana... I have 150# Peter Wright right next to it, but this is the one I always go to (also because I have giant guillotine almost permanently mounted in the hardy).  I'm lucky to have an excellent metal scrap yard nearby and I went in one day and they had a whole pallet of these giant mild steel blocks.  $45  It bounces a hammer the same as my PW... not sure if that always means anything. It also doesn't ring at all.. very nice on the ears. When I wear the edges down I will just flip it over.

Offline DANA HOLMAN

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Re: Making Shear Steel - DUN!
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2011, 03:47:00 PM »
thanks, maybe i need to go to the scrap yard.
dana
"When Satan is knocking at your door,
Simply say,

 "Jesus, could you get that for me?"

Offline JohnHV

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Re: Making Shear Steel - DUN!
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2011, 04:27:00 PM »
Thanks for sharing the process Scott.  I am interested in the "old methods" used prior to the age of industrialization.

I bet that seax will be awesome when it is done.  I think it is a highly under rated design. It dominated northern Europe for a couple hundred years so there must be some utility to it!  It would be great for cutting brush for ground blinds for instance.
John H.V.
Bent Arrow Forge, LLC
TBG, NGTA, TGMM
"our hearts have heard the low whistle of the flying arrow and the sweet hum of the bowstring singing..." S. Pope

Offline Scott Roush

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Re: Making Shear Steel - DUN!
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2011, 05:06:00 PM »
Yeah John... I'm actually going to make seax styled machete from my 1/8" stock.

Those seaxs were used for everything in those days...

Offline Scott Roush

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Re: Making Shear Steel - DUN!
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2011, 11:26:00 AM »
Look how this stuff etches!

 

Offline gudspelr

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Re: Making Shear Steel - DUN!
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2011, 06:30:00 AM »
Cool looking pattern-can't wait to see it all finished up.  Thanks for taking the time to post your progress on all this.


Jeremy
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- William Morris

Craftsmen strive to make their products both.

Offline Steve Nuckels

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Re: Making Shear Steel - DUN!
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2011, 08:08:00 PM »
Scott, very cool stuff!  Here is a site you may find interesting.

 http://www.baltimoreknife.com/products.htm

Steve
-------
Potomac Forge

Offline Scott Roush

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Re: Making Shear Steel - DUN!
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2011, 11:21:00 AM »
cool link Steve.. thanks... I know a lot of the names mentioned on there...

Offline Scott Roush

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Re: Making Shear Steel - DUN!
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2011, 03:59:00 PM »
Here is a test knife (2.5" blade) I made from the mother stock... this stuff doesn't act like commercial steels so you have to dial everything in...

It hardened wonderfully after 5 tries..turns out the austentizing temps are WAY above most steels.  It also got an awesome spontaneous hamon (without clay) but it's hard to see with the 600 grit polish and the patterning.

Anyway.. I just love this little knife.  The handle feels wonderful.  This is also my first center seam sheath. I wish I could afford one of my knives :-(

 

 

 

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