special first knife project build along (COMPLETE!)

[Hummer3T]

I'm making two knifes to commemorate a special hunt and friendship, once completed I will post with a story on Pow wow and see how long it takes for my friend to discover!


This is the first knife (two of them)I have attempted to make.  


I have started on design and wood
working which I am very comfortable

       

       
       

       
       


 
I have gotten to choosing metal and gaining knowledge on blade building.  I have done lots of metal working but never blade building.  I'm only going to buy stock and work, forging may come in later attempts.

I love the finished blade and raw metal tang look.  what stock would you suggest?

I have another question that might influence what I do is tempering.  I have heard of normalizing and tempering what is the diff and how does it relate to the blade.  also came you temper in an oven using 3 one hour 375 to 100 degree cycles?  I have access to a tempering oven, how do I temper a blade using it?

[gudspelr]

Looks like you have a great start. As for the stock, you have a wide variety available to you. I've only used carbon steels but if you have access to a heat treating oven, you could also use stainless steel. The different steels will dictate how they're hardened and tempered. I don't have a heat treating oven and simpler carbon steels work better for what I have (5160, 1084).

Normalizing is a process used to help reduce "grain" size in the steel which will lend to a better (with proper hardening/tempering), more tough knife. That's a very simplistic way of putting it. With carbon steels, I do 3 reducing heats; bring the knife just up to critical, then out of the forge to cool to a black heat in still air. A second heat, but not quite as hot, then cool, and a third time, again a bit lower temp. When the blade gets quenched, it hardens, but is brittle. To lower the hardness and impart some toughness, the knife gets put in an oven to temper.

I'm not sure I completely understand your last question about tempering and times. The higher the temperature that you temper the blade at and the longer you do so, the more hardness you'll lose. It all comes down to which steel you use (and the desired hardness for the knife being made) as to the proper quenching and tempering recipe.

Hope that helps you some. Feel free to keep asking questions, there are a lot of great guys on here to help you out.

Jeremy

[D.Ellis]

Jeremy has some good info there.
Here's my advice.
Either pick a simple steel that requires minimal equiptment to heat treat.......I recommend 1084. Or use an annealed stainless or tool steel and send it out to a professional for heat treat. There's a guy in Alberta that does a good job with heat treating if you go that route. If you need his contact info you can PM me.
Once you decide which of these options you prefer, then we can help you out with more detailed answers.
Darcy    

[kansas stik man]

0-1 ,1084 , or 1095 would all work great

[gables]

Check out these threads
  http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=110;t=002144

 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=110;t=004206

[Hummer3T]

 

 

here is the handle how it would look on the design blade.  Trying to find some material still and decide on ss or carbon.  looked for files with no luck.

[Hummer3T]

 

a couple practice trys on metal work for back of blade and handle

[gables]

Looks good. Keep plugging away. Might think about reducing thickness of handle scales some before glue up. I would also temporarily attach handles and shape handle outline and sand spine to 220-320 grit before the file work. This way you have to only hand sand spine after heat treat and glue up rather than risk damaging file work on grinder when shaping and rounding handle. A few drops of super glue can temp hold on the handle. Be very careful to clean up all epoxy squeeze out to also minimize grinding after glue up.

[Hummer3T]

Handle thickness is purposeful, I'm keeping them one peice at the bottom of the tang and routering them out to fit the tang on top to show iron work.

[Hummer3T]

metal arrived, got 1084 and S30V SS, decided to try with the ss for my first.


     

     


     

Here I transposed the templates onto the steel, I have make one template for rough design and one for a more refined finish size.

[Hummer3T]

Do you guys and gals sharpen before heat treating or wait until after.  I have heard sharpen and then touch up/ hone after the heat treating.

Tim

[gables]

Sharpening and usually final grinding is done after heat treat. Most people typically leave blade as thick as an 1/8" at rough grind, then harden and temper, then final grind. Edges are usually ground as thin as .020-.030" before edge shaping and sharpen. Remember that during heat treat you are scaling up the blade and all of that is then ground off after heat treat. It is better to lean on thick side for heat treat then thin the blade as you work down to final finishing grits.

Remember heat treat is a generic term for several specific steps including normalizing, annealing, hardening and tempering. You'll also hear other terms that fall under the heat treat umbrella.

[Hummer3T]

Thanks, I'm sending away for normalizing, annealing, hardening and tempering, so did not know at what stage I should be done to.  I'm putting a tapper on the blade right from the top of the tang to the blade surface, going from 1/8 " to the blade, do I still leave this for after the normalizing, annealing, hardening and tempering?

[Hummer3T]

Here are a couple new pictures maybe they will help with my above description????

Here I have removed stock to the basic design rough template and will start to modify to finer detail.


     
     
     
   

The final picture is to the final rough stage, hopefully gravy from here. The fine detail will start from here bringing it to the final template size and adding the file work and etching,trying to figure out the time line with some of this and heat treating.

[Hummer3T]

A little thinning out of the stock and preparing for heat treat.

   

[Hummer3T]

I am going to lighten the blade by cutting/drills holes under what will be the handle, should I do this before of after heat treating, also etching and file work described above, I would guess I would do after also???  help please!

[Lin Rhea]

You can do it either way, but remember that if you harden it first, you might have to use diamond files to do your filework.

There is some variance in procedure as long as you are prepared for the next step. The same with drilling the lightening holes. You may want to keep some carbide drill bits on hand just in case.

The alternative is to file and drill before heat treat, but you might increase the chance of a blade breaking in the quench.

If I was making a half dozen of the same knife, I might opt to file and drill first and take the risk of one breaking. If I was making a one of a kind, I would heat treat first and use what ever files and bits it took to get it done.

I have been hesitant to comment much since you are making a style that I dont do much, but I'm speaking from my experience only and I think it might help.

[Bladepeek]

Just looking at your blank profiles, I think you are going to have an interesting time inletting that tang down into the top of the handle without a gap at the rear. Not saying you can't do it, but it is going to be very time consuming undercutting the rear of the slot so it matches the curve on the top of the tang.

Ron

[Hummer3T]

Thanks very much guys, everything is new to me and I'm learning from tons of mistakes Im making on my journey.

[Hummer3T]

starting to finish!

Getting ready, laying out file work on top of tang, I have coded with which side the work is to be done on so I don't screw up.