Propane burner?

[Thadbow]

I have decided to build a 10" vertical propane forge and was wondering about burners.  I see there are a lot of people making their own and a lot of people purchasing them. My question to you all is, what have you learned through the years on your burners? Are there pros and cons to some over others?  I just want to try to do it right the first time!  Any help is greatly appreciated!

Thaddeus

[tomsm44]

I just built my first forge a few months back.  Look around online for information on ventouri burners.  Mine was easy to build, cheap, and works great.  There are others on here that probably know more about it than me so maybe they can give you some more information.

Matt Toms

[Lamey]

the only real drawback to most that are not "commercial" is longevity.  At one time I had a very nice industry grade commercial burner that would likely last lifetimes.  Generally the ones ive seen built or have built burn up at the cone after a few years.  This is not a huge deal as its a cheap part to replace, just one difference ive noticed.

[kbaknife]

I've been running mine for five straight years heating two different forges with it.
If you line your forge right, the end just burns off right at the inside of the liner and goes no further.
Easy to build - just need a blower.
Don't try to get "just enough" blower to run it. Get MORE blower than you need and reduce it by restricting how much air you need for however much heat you need.
Run a loooooooooooooooooooooong distance of line between your propane supply and your forge.
Put an in-line regulator with gages at the tank.
Make sure your burner has a needle valve to control volume.
You need to be able to control BOTH pressure and volume to regulate your temperature and atmosphere for each forging job - welding heat, forging temps and heat treating temps, thermal cycling, etc.

[tomsm44]

Karl,  its good to know they can last that long.  That's the one concern I had about the one I built.  

For the record, when built right, a ventouri burner can produce enough heat to reach forging and heat treating temp for most simple carbon steel without a blower.  That would allow for a simpler settup initially.  I haven't tried to reach welding temps with mine, but I expect it would be difficult if not impossible.  The blower would allow higher temps and should make it more efficient across the temp range.  I plan to add a blower to mine if I get to where I'm forging much to reduce my carbon footprint.   :D   Keep in mind that most of this came from online research, not actual experience.  The only thing I know for a fact is that mine can easily reach 1500+ degrees without a blower.  

Hope this helps
Matt Toms

[kansas stik man]

i used a forced air burner, i like it alot better than ventouri but thats just me.  my forge is not vertical but forced air works very well.

[kbaknife]

Matt (Toms), I might add here that the minimum forging range for 5160, which is something a lot of forgers use, is 1600 degrees.
The NORMAL forging range for 5160 is 2000+.
That another good reason to use a forced air burner.
And they are stupid simple to make.
There is no reason a forced air burner should not last 10-20-30 years!! No reason at all.
But it's not all just the burner.
It's like I said in the upper paragraph. Get a large propane tank - I use a 100 gallon.
A 100# would be minimum.
Run a long line from tank to forge so the evaporated fuel can sort of warm up to room temp before it hits the forge.
Have a constant regulated pressure right at the tank, then regulate it AGAIN prior to going to the forge.
I have mine regulated at a constant 7#s from the outside 100 gallon tank.
Then a regulator in the building to regulate it from 2#s or so up to about 4 1/2#s for welding.
From that regulator I have 15 feet of line to the forge burner which has a needle valve and shut off valve for fine tuning the final burn.
From the tank to the forge I have three shutoffs.

Now, you could have a 100# over in the corner with a regulator on it. Run hard line to the forge area with another regulator on that to adjust pressure to the burner. You don't want to adjust pressure at the tank. You want the tank at least 20-30 feet from the burner. This is why you need a closer regulator near the forge.
Anyway, it's more than just a burner.
You also need to regulate and fine tune VOLUME and PRESSURE to the burner.

[Lamey]

good info Karl,  what is your burner tip made of??

[kbaknife]

Matt, the tip is just 1 1/2" ID plumbing nipple.
It certainly should not burn past the inside edge of the forge liner.
Here's another thought - if you leave your burner mounter in a stationary manner to the forge after you shut the forge off, the retained forge heat will burn the tip back if you shut the blower off. It's the cool air blowing though it that keeps it from burning off outside the forge liner edge.
That's why I make mine so easily removable. I shut the forge and fuel off, let the blower run a few minutes to sort of cool off the forge, and then slide the blower out of the receiver so it doesn't burn off.
Nothing on this burner - short of the blower - that you can't get in any plumbing store.
This is the same blower running two different forges:

 

 

 

 

[kbaknife]

The only difference in those forge pictures is that I removed the elbow that is shown in the first one. It sort of shortened the length of the blower and made it a bit more accurate since it was pushing air a shorter distance.

[Thadbow]

This helps me out a bunch!  Thanks for all the pointers and especially the photos Karl.  
  Here is what I would like to do,  round up all the materials and do a little build along with your help?  I will take a bunch of photos and give all the dimensions along the way and hopefully it will help out some other newbies like myself!
 There is only so much reading I can do, now it is time to try it.  

Thanks gang,
Thaddeus

[tomsm44]

Thanks for the info Karl.  I would love to build something simlar to your settup one day.  That pretty well confirms what I had found online.  I got mine to 1500+ degrees easily, but it requires about 8-10 psi.  I think I could get close to the 2000 mark but it would really go through the fuel then.  For the record, I'm not forging with mine.  I wanted a reliable way to heat treat my stock removal knives with minimal setup cost which is why I left the blower off.  Only has to run for a few minutes to heat treat a blade so fuel use isn't a big deal right now.  I'm looking to try some forging soon and will likely try to get a blower in the future.  You can supposedly add a blower to the design I built to make it a forced air burner.  Here is a picture of mine.  Nothing fancy at all but it has worked very well so far for what I use it for.