My first forged knife - IT'S A BUST :(

[tomsm44]

Ok, so that's not entirely true since it's not really a knife yet, but I'm soaking wet, I smell like a goat, and my arms and shoulders are killing me, so I must be doing it right so far.       :D  

Anyway, I got a couple of progress pics.  First, I realize now EXACTLY what a fish mouth is after hearing it mentioned on here several times.            
   

Here it is after getting the fish mouth worked out.  This is the last picture I have for now.  I got the tip a little more refined and started working on the ricasso after this picture, but I ran out of propane before I got very far.      :(  
     

I'll try to get some propane tomorrow and hopefully work on it some more this weekend.  I'm thinking that on my first one, I'm going to leave it the same thickness top and bottom and grind my plunges in instead of forging.  I'll start forging them once I get this wild hammer of mine trained a little better.  I don't want to ruin my first one by going to far due to lack of experience.  Gotta start somewhere and I hope to be able to forge a little closer like I see a lot of you doing before too long. Anyway, as always, I have thick skin, so please give any critiques that you think will help me, no matter how harsh.

Thanks for all the advice and guidance that has gotten me this far.
Matt Toms

[D.Ellis]

No turning back now Matt.....you've started down a slippery slope!
I'd suggest to go ahead and forge in your bevels as close as you can.........there'll be lots of steel left to grind off anyway. You just need to stay off the flats near the riccaso, but up towards the tip you should be able to forge the bevels with less chance of messing up. You don't need to forge super close to finished shape, but you'll learn faster if you try and get it as close as you can. Just remember to forge equally on both sides to keep things centered as close as you can. Keep the steel hot while you are working it........it'll take less force to move, and it's much easier to hit accurately if you're not trying to whup it as hard as you can. Like shooting a trad bow instintively, hammer accuracy comes with practice, and concentration on the spot you want to hit is key.
Looking forward to seeing the finished blade.........are you gonna leave the hammer marks on the flats or grind em off?
Darcy  

[tomsm44]

I might go ahead and try to forge the bevels in this weekend.  Not sure about the forge marks.  I'm thinking I may leave them but I'll a aight until I'm closer to finished to see how I think it'll look.

[Bongos]

also remember is if the metal is too thin even though after the hardening process, during the tempering process, it can be ruined as well..

[Steve Nuckels]

Matt, you will learn a bunch from the first knife, and the second, the third.......

It is all part of the process, and your going to love it all!

Looking for the finished project!

Steve
----------
Potomac Forge
Member, W.F. Moran Jr. Museum & Foundation
ABS

[Lin Rhea]

How's the project going Matt?

[tomsm44]

No progress Lin.  It rained all day Saturday and I've been out of town for a pipeline corrosion class all week.  Just got back home about an hour ago.  I may get to spend a little time on it the next couple evenings once I get off my deer stand.  I'll be tied up most of the day Saturday also.  Me and my little boy will be busy with the La youth rifle season. Hopefully I'll get a little more serious into knives next week.

Matt

[tomsm44]

I skipped hunting hunting this evening and got a little more done on this.  I got he plunges forged in and got the tang forged roughly to shape.  Then I let everything cool down while I fixed supper for my son and me.  (My wife is expecting in a little over a month and has been put on bed rest and a strict diet due to blood pressure issues so we're fending for ourselves.  Doctor wants her to hold out at least another couple weeks if possible so any prayers would be appreciated)  Anyway, after supper I got the profile cleaned up on the grinder and got the sides of the tang cleaned up as well.  I haven't touched the blade yet because I'm out of new belts so I guess I'm through with this one until I get some.  I have several to do by Christmas so this will be a good time to work on my forging until I get some belts.  This first picture is the initial profile that I ground.  After holding it I decided that it didn't fit my hand like I wanted and the corner on the top of the end of the tang was too sharp since it didn't make it past my palm.
 

Her you can see that I rounded the top corner off.  I also moved the bottom corner forward slightly and ground the two curves on the end of the tang and just forward of bottom corner a little deeper to fit my pinky and ring finger better.
 

This picture shows how my fingers would line up when holding it.  I like for my pinky to wrap around the end of the tang on a knife this size rather than around the bottom with my other fingers.  Seems to give me a better grip. If I do a good job contouring the handle, this should make a comfortable little knife.
 

Length is going to be just a hair under 7" with the blade about  3 1/2".  I forged it from 1/4" stock and I didn't draw it out very much so it should be just shy of that once I'm through grinding.

[Kevin Evans]

Fun Stuff!
Don't you think?      

[tomsm44]

It is indeed fun Kevin.  The deer around here keep on growing whether I hunt or not so I figured I'd do something where I'd at least get some results.  About to go climb in a stand with my 8 yr old now for the La youth rifle hunt.  

Matt

[Lin Rhea]

I think I see a knife in that piece of steel! That will make a fine little hunting knife.

[tomsm44]

Thanks Lin.  I think it'll turn out ok.  It'll be pretty heavy for how long it is due to how thick I left it.  I've mostly used 1/8" stock up to now and wanted to try one a little thicker just to see how I like it but this may be too thick.  But this is how we learn.  

Matt

[D.Ellis]

Not too thick Matt.......just too short  :D   (says the guy who carries a 9 1/2 inch bowie as a general purpose blade)
The nice thing about thicker steel is you can always whup it thinner........much harder to take thin steel and whup it thicker.
Looking good so far.
Darcy  

[tomsm44]

Ok finally got some belts in and got the blade ground roughly to shape before supper last night.  Still needs some work but you can see where it's going.  Weather is going to be a little too nice the next couple of days to pull myself away from the woods but I plan to spend a lot more time on this one and a few others over the next couple of weeks.

 

[tomsm44]

Getting close....finally.  I got the scales attached (black corian and cocobolo) and have them almost shaped.  I can usually do most of the sculpting with my belt grinder but this is a small knife and my setup won't let me get into those tight curves.  I'm therefore doing most of the shaping with a small half round file.  Takes a little longer but there's something gratifying about doing a little more with simple hand tools and it actually makes a nice change to do it this way from time to time.  The other blade is a little bird and trout I've been wanting to build for a while, but after seeing Lin's bird and boot a couple weeks ago, I think I'm going to steal his double gaurd idea and make a sort of compact fighter.  You can see where I'm headed with the sketch.

   

[Lamey]

to help avoid the dreaded "fish mouth" forge a coffin shape when the bar is still thick, also make sure your steel is on the hot end of the spectrum.  After you get the corners knocked down, it will be much easier to forge that tip out without the > taking place.  Its important that you use the biggest hammer you work with, work it hot, hit it hard.... all this will help.

I like working with thicker bar or round if possible,  really gives you more options when shaping and teaches you a bit about what does what.  As far as forging thin, I wouldn't worry about getting it "too thin".  If you forge good and clean you can pull that edge way down, most of the blades I forge can be taken from anvil to sharpening belt or stone. Im not alone in that, just a reference on how thin you can get that edge forged.

[tomsm44]

Thanks for the tops Matt.  I was able to avoid the fish mouth on the next couple of blades I forged by doing the coffin shape first.  I also forged hotter.  Made everything easier but I didn't realize this factor would help with the fish mouth also.  Good to know for future reference.  I didn't get this blade exactly like I wanted.  I had intended to leave the handle a little longer.  It was harder to find a good reference point than when doing stock removal.  I usually can hold the piece in hand when doing stock removal to see when the piece starts to feel right and remove metal slowly until it's where I want it.  Might get my hand a little warmer than I want if I did that while forging.    :eek:     I'm working on developing my eye for this instead of relying on actually handling the piece.

[tomsm44]

Well, my first forged knife is a bust....literally.  I've been using stainless pins a lot lately and have gotten used to having to really hammer on them to get them tight.  I got a little carried away on the brass I used on this one and cracked the black corian I used on the handle.   :mad:     You can see the whitish ring going out from the pin in the picture.  I went ahead and finished it just for the heck of it.  It was intended for a relative to give her brother for Christmas but looks like I'll be doing another one instead.  This on should make a good knock around skinner to maybe keep in my glove box.  My second forged knife is a different story though.  I finished it up today and it turned out pretty seaxy.       I'll get pictures of it and get them up later tonight or tomorrow  

 

[D.Ellis]

Bummer! Rehandle?
Darcy  

[tomsm44]

I considered it Darcy, but it's just cosmetic.  You can't even feel the crack with your fingernail so I think it'll hold up.  I'm just going to use it myself and make another one for my cousin.  This way I won't be worried about scratching it up.