Schemin on a new bow... opinions on TD systems?

[Montana Slim]

Hey guys,
I have been thinkin about a new bow, but I'm not sure exactly what I want.  It would be really nice to have a takedown, and I've been scopin out most of the "major" bowyers, as well as anything else I can find...
I have a 31.5" draw, and prefer longbows without a heavy riser section. I was wondering what you guys have to say about the different takedown systems?  I think I'm especially interested in the bowbolt...
Any experiences you have to share or maybe even some more bowyers to look into would be greatly appreciated.  PICS ALWAYS WELCOME!

Thanks,
Ray

[Over&Under]

The only 2-piece td system I am familiar with is the talon system.  It seems pretty bullet proof and very tight, and that was on a bow that was 5 years old.

[Fletcher]

I have a Robertson with his Connexion Hinge that has proven to be very strong and stable.  The old sleeve  is well proven, too.

[Orion]

Never used a bow bolt, but they seem to be getting good reviews.  I do like the old-fashioned sleeve.  Nice thing about the bolt and the sleeve is that when you unstring the bow, you still have a one-piece bow in your hand.  With any of the hinges, you have two pieces that seem to want to bang into stuff, at least when I'm holding them.  For what it's worth.

[paradocs]

The Great Northern Jackknife hinge does not come apart; it merely folds in half....makes it easy to maintain brace height, since the string never comes off the bow.  The limbs don't rattle, either; I carry mine broken down in a bow sock inside the back quiver in complete silence.

[Montana Slim]

I am very interested in the different kinds of 2-piece systems.  I'm assuming that they all are pretty similar to each other, but how are they 'solid'..?  I've never had any of them in hand so it seems like they wouldn't be...  Do they have to be strung to be a 'single' piece?  I've never heard of the talon system, so I would like to hear/see more about that.

Thanks for the input - keep it comin!
ray
Pics are always good.

[Craig Warren]

Ray,
Go to  WWW.Warrenarchery.com  for info on the Bow Bolt. Sponsor on this site.

Then, give me a call anytime if you have questions. Phone number is on the site.

Craig

[upnorth]

Hi everyone,
I'm very interested in the bow bolt too.
So far, in my bow making I have been using the "Robertson” connexion hinge wich is very good, strong and easy to install but I have enough of seeing this piece of metal sticking out off the riser.
Before the connexion hinge system, I was using the sleeve, very good stuff too but if you want a pistol grip etc... riser, you will have to add some wood or leather on it to have the shape that you want.
The bow bolt look perfect except that I'm a bit worried (no particular reason) with the pressure it could exercise on the riser.
If the riser is not made of laminated wood or renforced with micarta/phenolic will that be ok?
If the riser is only one solid piece of wood would that be strong enough to handle the pressure and those two big holes?

i'm sure the bow bolt is not going to break, but the bow...

Thanks for your answer and advices.            

Virgil

ps: sorry for my english riting

[Craig Warren]

Virgil,

I developed the Bow Bolt system for the exact reasons you mentioned.  There are a lot of good systems out there, but none did everything I wanted them to do.  The Bow Bolt does, but proper installation is very important.  That's not to say that it is difficult, it's not, but care must be taken in getting the best glue bond possible when installing one.  

My theory was that if you replace wood with stainless steel (assuming a good glue bond) the handle should actually be stronger than if it were all wood.  Most woodworkers will tell you that the glue joint is stronger than the pieces being joined and where care is taken, this is true.  

Having said all of this, there have been bows that HAVE broken after installing a Bow Bolt and upon examination, the reason has been the same in all cases.  Poor glue joints around the Bow Bolt or "dry spots" in the glue joints of adjacent accent stripes. In two instances, the fault was found to be epoxy that didn't cure properly; probably due to its age. It was found to be two years past it's shelf life.  

There are detailed instructions on my website (WWW.Warrenarchery.com) which emphasize the importance of being super clean during the process, but some tend not to read the directions.

I am still shooting all of my prototype Bow Bolt
bows (some are 4 years old now) and they are all doing well.  Some are solid wood, some are action wood or dymonddwood, and one is solid micarta.  I know of several others that have been dry fired because of broken knocks and one, an 85# bow with a solid Cocoabola riser that was built as a "test bow" that was dry fired on purpose and all have stayed together.

If proper care is taken during installation, there should be no problem with breakage.

[upnorth]

Thank you very much Craig.

[Over&Under]

Here is a pic of the talon system.


 

[BobW]

The bowyer I used would not do a bow bolt in a layered handle due to the result of heat on the laminations during drilling.  I trusted his concerns.  As it appears that there is also an issue of a long draw (31.5"), and subsequent additional stresses on tha bow.  You really got to talk with your bowyer.  A "conventional" 3-piece may be an option instead of a 2-piece.

Good luck on your quest.

BobW

[mooseman76]

Craig, I've heard of the bolt slightly twisting when shooting with a bow quiver on.  Have you found this to be the case?  I like to use a GN strap quiver on my longbows.  I really like the bolt system, as it looks so clean, just a little worried about the system opening up on me.  Thanks...Mike

[BobW]

I need to make a clarification to my post:  the issue with mine was a concern due to laminations of wood and phenolic and the potential for them to react differently due to the heat when drilled.

Bottom line is to talk to your bowyer, see what style TD he uses/trusts/believes in based on what you are doing.  Lots of good choices out there, many tried and tested.  Seems the ones that aren't, are not available anymore.

[Craig Warren]

Mooseman,

The answer is yes, I have heard of that happening.  I believe the reason for it was twofold, and it probably wouldn't happen unless both of the factors were present at the same time.  The added weight of the quiver, off center to the bow, (the only way it can be) in conjunction with a tight grip on the bow (poor technique) caused excessive torque on the shot. A counter clockwise twist is how you take the bow apart.  

To correct this situation, one or both of the following things need to be addressed.  1.  The shooter should use a relaxed grip on the bow, but I can't do anything about that.  2.  In the current production run of the 5/8" size bow bolts, we have increased the rotation before hitting the stop by .080".  This allows the Bow Bolt to get tighter when put together than the original did.  I am hoping that this, alone, will allow the use of a bow quiver even if the shooter still torques the bow on the shot.

I should add that a lot of people are using the Bow Bolt system in conjunction with a quiver and have had no problem at all.

I hope this helps.

Craig

[Steelhead]

Take a look at Thunderhorns 2 pc TD system on thier website its precise and stong and looks fantastic.Very expensive though.The locket socket is a real nice system thats used by widow and Cari-bow.So far mine seems real strong,very tight fit.Also Wes Wallace does a 2 pc sleeve style and you can still get a locater style grip with it

[mooseman76]

Thanks Craig...Mike

[Badlands]

I built a takedown RD longbow last year at the MN bow building gathering and used one of Craig's bow bolts.  I'have built over 40 take down recurves but this was my attempt at a longbow and my first experience with the bow bolt. I loved it.  I thought that it was extremenly well made and pretty easy to install.  Like I said it is the only system that I have used, but I wouldn't hesitate to use it again.

Brad