Osage stave problems (pics added)

[razorback]

Ok, I put this on the POWWOW thread as well but thought I might get a better response here.

I just unwrapped an osage stave that I got in a swap from another trad member and it has longnitudinal cracks running with the grain down the sides of the stave. Some of these appear to be fairly deep. Are these sorts of things normal with osage (first stave for me) and I just need to work around them or could they be a problem. The ends and the back have been sealed and the stave was cut about a year ago, I believe.

   

[Pat B]

I just realized you said down the side of the stave. Probably what you will have to do is reduce the stave to near bow dimensions and see if the checks are still there. If so, there are a few options that should help.    Pat

[shamus]

drying checks. If they are running with the grain, then that's not so bad (depending on the severity and location). As Pat said, you have options.

If the drying checks run across the grain, then that is a serious problem.

But these sound like normal drying checks. Drying checks on the SIDES of a stave? (usually they are on the ends and back).

Pictures?

[bigcountry]

Just worked with a stave today with same things.  Thank goodness, the cracks went away when I designed around it.  All you can do is try to work away from it.

[razorback]

They run on both sides and belly of staves, worst on sides. Biggest one seems to be a seperation of the rings and I will have to work down to it too see what I have once I get there. Hopefully some of the others will be gone by then and I will have enough wood left to get a bow out of it.

[razorback]

once photobucket is back online I will try to get some photo's up. Anybody know if they are "clean" yet.

[ranger 3]

I was just there

[shamus]

Biggest one seems to be a seperation of the rings  

then that's a laminar separation. Not a good sign. There has been a disintegration of an early wood ring. You can get this with staves that have left out in the elements too long.

[No-sage]

Those are called wind shakes.  They happen when the tree is growing.

Shakes can be a problem.  Depends on where they end up in the bow.  Even if you can avoid them in layout, they may show again during tillering or even shooting.  

Once you can post pictures, it will be easier to tell.  Shakes are never good though.... they are considered a defect in the wood industry.

[razorback]

I thought they may be wind checks. Am working on pictures right now and will will have some up soon. I hope.

[razorback]

Well here are some photo's. I hope they work as this is my first time posting pics.

IMG]http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu207/aussiearcher/324.jpg[/IMG]

 

 

 

[John Scifres]

Yikes,

Looks like that one was pushed over.  Shakes like that can also happen in really strong winds.  You can sometimes work around them and sometimes a bow will survive even when you can't.  I think I'd have to ask for another stave.  That's not good.

John

[razorback]

Thanks John.
thats what I was afraid of. Will e-mail my source and let him know. I may be able to get another, better stave from him. For my first effort with Osage I think a better piece of wood would be good.

[Eric Krewson]

Side cracks aren't wind shakes, just bad osage. I have made a few bows from staves with side cracks, they often come back even if you work your way out of them while making a bow.

My worst experience was sinewing an osage bow that showed a side crack in the handle. When the sinew dried it delaminated the entire bow with deep side cracks up and down both limbs.

Here is a picture of what side crack wood might do if you put sinew on it.

 

[Art B]

Only time that I've seen that happen was when the tree was felled in spring and summer. To much moisture in the wood trying to dry out to quick I suspect. ART B

[razorback]

Well I am going to dive in and try to find a bow in that there stick. I have it down to the ring above the one I want to use and am about to lay the bow out. The stave has a slight bow to it, shouls I;
A. Lay a centerline following the grain and measaure my bow off of it, or;
B. See if I can lay a straight bow out on the stave. I think I have room for this and the grain id very straight.

Also there is one major knot which I have left 2 growth rings over the top of (making it 3 rings). It is a hole and in the center of the stave. I can put it in the handle which will give me 65-66" tip to tip or I could move it into the fade area to give a bit more length to the limbs. I am looking for 40-50# out of this bow.

 

 

[Roy Steele]

You'll just have to start your bow and hope they don't run to deep.
The reason,looks like the ends were sealed right a way or you would have cracks in the ends.But after they did it they left it in the sun.
   And the moisture exscaped out the sides to fast,causing cracking.If you look it over the side closest to the sun will have more cracks.

[John Scifres]

I'd do my best to establish a centerline following the grain.  Measure 5/8" on either side of it to get your width.  You should be able to make a nice overbuilt bow that is 64" long.  Make sure to narrow the tips to reduce mass.  

Put the knot in a non-bending area and it'll be fine.  

Superglue the checks and watch them for opening up or spreading.  Keep them away from the sides of your bow.

[razorback]

Working slowly but am starting to reduce stave to see what I have. Looks like most of the cracks will be removed except for some in the handle area. I will superglue them and even wrap it if needed. handle isn't going to bend so may be ok. WWill keep updated and add pics soon.

[razorback]

What is the normal thickness at the fades of an Osage bow. I think I will still have one crack to deal with one ring below where I was planning on haveing my back. If I need to reduce one more ring it might be too thin to be a good bow. I am thinking at this point that i may need to back it with some wood. Any suggestions