Feelings on Faceted Tiller Dean T's method

[bigcountry]

I ordered Dean Torges little tillering pamplet along with DVD for hunting the Bamboo backed bow.  

Still not sure how to apply this to selfbows.  REally don't want to order his book also right now.  Should have paid the extra few bucks and forgot about the pamplet and just got the book.  12 dollars is a little steep for a pamplet.

I have been tillering osage with dead flat bellies.

[bjansen]

I used that method on the last couple selfbows I made (1 ash, 1 hickory)..I really like it and I think it gives me better results. I do the same on a self bow as I would on a bamboo laminated bow....either mark out lines on the belly/sides and rough out the facet, or just do it by eye (creating 45 degree angles on both sides).

[bigcountry]

Thanks, do you have any details no the facets?  Like how far from back/belly and how far in the belly.  If I am thinking right, his video says 1/3 of the way of the sides and 1/3 way of the belly.

So how does it work?  You concentrate on side facets for tiller and knock down the center facet for wieght?  Or do all three at a time?

Thanks for the reply.

[Dano]

First, I'm not big into dvd's and video's. I like to have the text in the shop when I need it, that is important to me. I'd buy the book (yep I did).
I think Dean's method as he describes it in his book, is the most efficient way to tiller a bow. And the belly ends up looking graceful instead of flat and lifeless. My two cents for what it's worth.  

[2treks]

UMMM, Well said Dano. sice I started with a radiused belly I CAN"T build a flattie anymore. Dean showed me his bows years ago and That was all I needed to start fresh. Once you get the hang of it, you can really nail some tiller.
   To answer your question Bigcountry, You can use the facet method on any wood bow.

[John Scifres]

You kinda went backwards.  The book comes/came first and then you can move on to the video.  Just get the book.  It's like $20, right?

[bigcountry]

So is it that really in depth that it can't be explained easily?

[Apex Predator]

Yeah, I hate to take anything away from Dean, but I really don't have a clue what you guys are talking about.  Can anyone explain it a little more?

[2treks]

I will try.
If you look at a cross section of your limb, Belly up, it will be rectangular in cross section. then nock the corners off the belly side.you are wanting to establish a uniform thickness down the edges of the limb. you then will have a three sided "top" to your cross section.The three flat spots are your facets. you will chase tiller on the middle facet and drop draw weight on the two (belly) side facets.All of your work will be done on the three belly facets.
   Once you establish the edges of the bow, or the side of the LIMB, you want to keep them intact until final sanding/shaping. The farther toward the center of the belly you take your belly facets will dictate the amount of radius you have. this is a personal choice, I hope this helps you all. Dean says it WAY better than I do. He is a great writer as well as a great bow maker. Let me know if you have any questions.
Chuck

[Adam Keiper]

I use Dean's facet tillering on every bow.  The facets serve kind of like plumb lines for maintaining a uniform belly.  They also minimize the amount of flat surface that has to be worked with flat tools, which makes it physically easier to work on a bow.  

To begin floor tillering, the facet method has you cut a flat facet across the belly, and angled facets on either side of the belly.  You alternate working the belly facet and the side facets to reduce weight and bring about the tiller.  As tillering progresses, you begin to cut additional facets at the corners of the original facets until they belly round.  (A hexagon shape becomes an octagon shape, which eventually becomes round.)

I begin to knock the corners off the facets about the time that I begin trying to push-pull brace a bow.  (I brace my bows, usually 55-65# @ 25", as soon as they're weak enough that I physically can manage without blowing a disk.)  By the time I first get it strung, they belly is getting pretty round, and I'm perhaps 10-20# overweight on draw.  I finish the belly rounding from that point and work "in the round" from there, though I think Dean carries his facets just a little later in the process before he begins to round them.

Apex, Dean's book, "Hunting the Osage Bow", is a complete bowbuilding guide, from tree selection, to tillering, to finishing.  "Facet tillering is discussed in depth, of course, but it's only one piece of book.  Written in storyline prose, it's extremely entertaining as well.  Not at all a dull manual.  Engineering types used to scouring phone-book thick technical specification manuals will either be driven mad by it or find it a breath of fresh air.  I'm certainly in the latter camp, though I admit there are bits and pieces that are cryptic as hell.  (Dean did that on purpose I guess, to make us dig.)  It's the most complete, exacting, and entertaining of many bowmaking books that I've owned.  It's also one of the few books where I agree with nearly everything presented.  In fact, of all the designs that I've tried over the last decade, I'm ever more fond and appreciative of the design presented in H.O.B.        

[John Scifres]

Bigcountry, yes.

[shamus]

Buy Dean's book and it really explains faceted tillering. I've used it on some bows and it does work.

[Apex Predator]

I'm missing that one from my library.  I've seen it referenced in every bow making text I've read it seems.  Gotta get a copy!

I have a much better understanding now folks, thank you!

[bigcountry]

Thanks Two tracks and Adam.  Exactly what I was looking for.  I apprecate the info.

I read so much about this stuff, I feel like I am in college.  For the past year, I have read thru many times all 4 volumns of TBB.  Read Jim Hamm's book, read the bent stick.  I will eventually get Dean's book, but I need a break from spending money on this stuff for a while.  With bandsaws, and sanders, spokeshaves, drawknives, staves, etc, its much more expensive than I thought it would be.

[2treks]

I really agree with Adam. It is a very comprehensive bow making guide that is so much fun to read that you will have in your hands ALOT! It goes into great detail about all manner of bow making whys and why nots. And I to think that Dean has offered us room to "DIG". I will be working on a bow and recall something Dean said in the book or in the video and then I will come in for lunch and re-read or re-watch and get something new or gain another perspective.
   It may not be the only way to build a bow, but it sure does work and work well.
Have fun, Chuck