I suck at tip overlays?

[Don Batten]

Guys I need some guidance here. I've seen some very nice work on tip overlays on here. Mine look like crap and on top of that both of the bows ive made , the overlays have failed on one end or the other. cutting strings or just comming unglued. I use smooth on and put them under a lamp. I guess I just need more practice. Do any of you shape them before you glue or is it best to glue on a chunk and them shape? thanks for any tips in advance. Don

[formerbutcher]

Hi Don, The few i have done i have tapered them flush with the back of the bow before i glued them on using Tite bond 3. If you don't taper them before glueing you will wreck the back of you'r bow trying to sand them flush.

Good luck and i hope this helped alittle.

John

[kurtbel5]

Good "how to" on the history trad forum
restoration 101 thread.
         Kurt

[bjansen]

Batman, Ive tried a bunch of different ways but the way that I think works best is as follows:

Before I put on my overlays, I leave locate where my string grooves will go and cut them in the sides only.  I usually have my tips about 1/4" wider than they will be finished.

1.  Tape off the limb about 1/4" below where the overlay will end.  
2.  Sand the limb and overlays (if not previously roughed up) with about 80 grit paper and then clean everything with Acetone.  
3.  Dry fit it with clamps, then glue it up with smooth on under your lamps
4.  When set, remove clamps and sand it to a rough shape
5.  Sand the top to get the transition to the limb glass smooth and seamless(which if your not careful will round your edges a bit...but dont worry you still have them wider than you want in your final bow)
6.  Then draw out the final profile you want and take it to the belt sander. Take it one step at a time then repeat on the opposite lam.  
7.  Back to your string groove file, finish up and make a nice smooth, rounded groove for the string.
8.  Finish sand with 120, then 220.

It takes me about 1 hour to do steps 1-3 and then 1.5 hours to do steps 4-8.

[greenhorn]

Use thick superglue..........never had a tip come off. Just rough up both surfaces, use spring clamps for pressure, ten minutes later done.

[Walt Francis]

There is some real good advice above.  One thing I can’t stress enough is to make sure the gluing surfaces are shaped, mated, and fit properly:
Here some of the methods I use for overlays:
For wood bows
1.    I flatten both surfaces with my oscillating belt sander (any disc or belt sander works) and make sure there are no gaps, ANYWHERE.  Files can be used for the flattening but I (and most everybody that I seen attempt it) round the edge and enlarge the glue lines.
2.   Like the others I taper one end and leave the top of the overlay flat to allow my clamps a good clamping surface (sometimes I this isn’t possible with materials like antlers and horn).
3.   I put the overlays on before rounding the belly of the limb tip so the clamps have a good clamping surface.
4.   Do a test runs using your clamps, before using glue, to make sure your clamps will not slip.
5.   I use spring and small C clamps, depending on which one has the best hold I prefer the spring clamps).
6.   Leave you tips and overlays wide then reduce the width using either a file or belt/disc sander.
7.   Round over and rough shape the tops using a file and/or the belt/disc sander.  
8.   To get a uniform roundness take some fine emery or cloth sand paper and “shoe shine” the tips to remove and ridges and dips.
9.   After the tips are shaped, put the string groves and round them over the top.  If you had groves in the limb tip before installing the overlay follow those groves, if they are properly aligned.
10.   There are many different styles of nocks sot the techniques used might be different, but all of them should be rounded and smoothed out.  No abrupt edges, which is what kills strings.
11.   The belly side of the string groves needs to be wider than the rest of the grove, if not then the string will rub the edge of the grove and either be cut (left square) or come partly out of the grove when the bow is drawn.  I can feel a tip like this lift out and pop back in to the grove when the bow is drawn and let back down; you can hear it when an arrow is released.
Glass Bow
1.   I use the same method except when shaping the gluing surfaces.  
2.   I rough up the glass with 100 grit paper.
3.   I shape the bottom, the surface that will be glued, of the overlay to fit the back of each limb tip.  For longbows I flatten it on the planner and then rough it upon the disc or belt sander.  For a recurve I shape it to fit with the belt sander.  
4.   Once again, it is extremely difficult to keep from rounding the edges with files.

Anyway, this is the method I developed through trial and error over the years.  There are other methods that work but this is the most efficient one for me.  
For glue I have used Recorcinol (sp), Urac 185, Smooth On, Tite Bond 2&3. Zap-a Gap (a thick Super Glue), and Wal-Mart super glue, they all work if the guling surfaces is properly prepared and cleaned.  My preference is super glue because it is easy to use (no mixing) and allows me to start shaping the tips in ten minutes.

[ALW]

All good information.  I think everyone comes up with what works best for them.  I've used sandpaper to mate the surfaces as close as possible (wrap the tip with sandpaper and rub the overlay on it) before.  I've cut the tip at an angle right through the back and glued an overlay piece on.  On one of the last ones I did, I didn't want to do either method I mentioned here so I used really thin pieces (1/16"-1/8") and laminated several pieces on the tip one at a time.  I used several small clamps and being as thin as they were they formed to the back with the clamping pressure.  I roughed the tip up first.  Did two or three layers gluing with superglue.  Only took about 30 or 40 minutes and I was filing and shaping.

Do a search on here and you will find a lot of good advice on tip overlays.

Aaron

[Don Batten]

Thanks for the help. I need to get some super glue and some patience. Don

[Aeronut]

These are on a glass backed longbow I made and are glued on with Smooth-On.  If I am making a Bamboo-backed bow I use Urac.  I don't use a heat lamp to cure them, the bow goes back in the hotbox at a slightly reduced temperature.  I take my time with the tip overlays and haven't had any problems.

 

 

Dennis

[Aeronut]

I don't use a heat lamp to cure the tip overlays, the bow goes back into the hot box at a slightly reduced temperature.  These are glued on a glass-backed bow with Smooth-On.  If I am making a Bamboo-backed bow I use Urac.  I take my time with the overlays and I haven't had any problems.

 

 

Dennis