The Secret to Heat tempering Bamboo?

[flint kemper]

I know you were expecting the answer. I have searched and searched for reliable info as to how Howard Hill and John Schulz tempered their bamboo for their bows. I have some knowledge but not all of it. Would anyone be willing to share what info you might have as well? Thanks Flint

[Ricker]

That seems to be a loaded and well guarded secret apparently.  I have every reason to believe Dave Miller knows and is willing to share this knowledge in a "teacher- mentor" class situation for some people.  Dave is an exceptional person and a wealth of knowledge too.
We shouldn't expect the information to come cheap or for free....they paid their dues and I guess we should too.

I think there are some that think they know how but the mystique of really how to do it is a trade secret that should probably be preserved for those in the business of building those pieces of art we all love and cherish.
Respect for the Howard Hill fans and the bowyers he chose to teach...

I have a deep love for the spirit of hand craftsmanship and how the fore fathers toiled and studied from others to gain the knowledge they learned.  Piece by piece.
I worry that the day will come with the internet when the secrets will be common knowledge with no physical effort or any type of "dues" paid to learn the craft as things were learned in the past.
A student used to learn under a journeyman for years....for a reason.  Quality. Patience. Respect for the craft.
Dear sir, Mr. Flint Kemper, if you have key pieces of knowledge keep it to yourself for the respect and honor of the true craftsman of our forefathers who worked so hard for the answers we easily seek, and also for those that divulged the information to you.  You must really be a spectacular person for someone to let you in on the secrets...

Please understand this is only my personal opinion and predjudice...I think your post is so awesome as I too wish to know the secrets...but I don't think i deserve to know without a real expenditure of effort and time invested.

Again, a great post....

Rick


Whew!!!!!! Hope I Ddn't kill ya off with a soap box attack............   :confused:

[Pat B]

I've watched James Parker(Huntworthy Productions-sponsor)temper boo belly strips. He uses a rosebud attachment on a large propane torch and litterally burns the boo as he goes from one end to the other. The boo will be flaming behind the torch. I have also heard of folks using a pizza oven to temper boo. How HH or JS did theirs I have no idea.

[droptine59]

The method I have to temper the bamboo is to heat it when it is green using a propane torch. moving the flame up and down the surface about 6" away taking care not to burn the surface until it changes from shades of green to tan and if desired, to darker shades of brown.

Using a block bees wax on the surface during the heating process, melting it onto the surface and immediately wiping off the excess wax helps to removes grime in the material.


The heated bamboo is cooled, the molecular change of the `sugary juices' occurs, which upon drying, `fixes` onto the cell walls, like a hard but pliable glue-like substance.

I warn against too brown or burnt look. that wil cause premature brittleness of the bamboo. there is no perfect answer. trial and error.

[ProArcher]

Chupa
I thought the whole idea of the Bowyers Bench was to pass knowledge and help others become bowyers in their own rite. I do respect your opinion and your right to post it, but I am glad that so many of the outstanding members of this group pass information freely. I am sure that there are people here that would not have attempted to build bows without the help and knowledge they got from asking questions and getting the answers needed. I personally am one of those that would not have started building bows.
With out forums like this one a lot of people would have to scrimp and save just to get a hunting bow. This great sport of ours is in danger of going by the wayside. I see more and more people that would rather spend on high powered rifle and shoot something they can’t even see without optics then to spend on a bow that they have to do the work and get close with. We are going to loose if we can’t get young people and keep older people involved this sport will die.
I understand where your coming from I am a seasoned machinist with 28 years under my belt. But the machinist trade is going the same way. Young people just don’t want to put in the time. As a trades man it is my duty to the industry to share the knowledge with the kids. Other wise this to will die.  
 

Thank you Johnny (Ray) Mills (aka ProArcher)

[Tom Leemans]

From what I've read, Droptine pretty much has it covered. Go to bamboocraft.net and look at the workshop area and look up the heat tempering process if you want to see pictures.

[flint kemper]

Chupa, good post and I do feel the that way about learning the old arts, and I have learned quite a few. I know Mr. Miller and shoot one of his bows exclusively and may take his bow school. I have never built a laminated bow but a few self bows and I am having a bowyer friend of mine going to help me accomplish that over the winter. I am looking at the future as well as I do not want this type of bow building tradition to die and that is what David has stated as well to me. I have listened more than spoken for sure as I am a sponge around people that have paid their dues in all kinds of archery craftsmanship. I do not expect to be given freely the secrets either, but thought this might generate some discussion which it did. Pat, Droptine and Tom Thanks for the info and Tom I do not believe we have ever met but need to since I am a fellow Illinois boy. Thanks once again everyone. Flint

[Ricker]

Flint, You're a true gentleman and thanks for the understanding of my response to your post.  It is hard to deliver in "type" the inflection of voice.  I see you also care about the handful of bowyers that really do know tempering the way Hill did...and the choice they made to make their living that way.  I know they feel like they should be the ones to pass it on.  So, in honor of them I posted a response.
This site is an awesome place for sharing and helping others freely.  There are many great seasoned bow makers here helping others.
I wish you well with your wintertime build and thanks again.   Chupa(also a fellow sponge)

ProArcher, I feel the same way you do as well.  Passing on the tradition is really important for sure.  I hope I didn't sound like sharing was a bad thing......

[bigcountry]

Wow, can't believe someone would have this attitude.  My goal in life is to help as many as possible with whatever I can help them with.  

Life is so complicated and can be so tough with family and obligations, I just can't see someone handicapping another like this.


With reasoning like this, there would be no internet, no transfer of knowledge to build upon.  I am glad science community isn't so close minded myself.


 

Originally posted by chupa:
That seems to be a loaded and well guarded secret apparently.  I have every reason to believe Dave Miller knows and is willing to share this knowledge in a "teacher- mentor" class situation for some people.  Dave is an exceptional person and a wealth of knowledge too.
We shouldn't expect the information to come cheap or for free....they paid their dues and I guess we should too.

I think there are some that think they know how but the mystique of really how to do it is a trade secret that should probably be preserved for those in the business of building those pieces of art we all love and cherish.
Respect for the Howard Hill fans and the bowyers he chose to teach...

I have a deep love for the spirit of hand craftsmanship and how the fore fathers toiled and studied from others to gain the knowledge they learned.  Piece by piece.
I worry that the day will come with the internet when the secrets will be common knowledge with no physical effort or any type of "dues" paid to learn the craft as things were learned in the past.
A student used to learn under a journeyman for years....for a reason.  Quality. Patience. Respect for the craft.
Dear sir, Mr. Flint Kemper, if you have key pieces of knowledge keep it to yourself for the respect and honor of the true craftsman of our forefathers who worked so hard for the answers we easily seek, and also for those that divulged the information to you.  You must really be a spectacular person for someone to let you in on the secrets...

Please understand this is only my personal opinion and predjudice...I think your post is so awesome as I too wish to know the secrets...but I don't think i deserve to know without a real expenditure of effort and time invested.

Again, a great post....

Rick


Whew!!!!!! Hope I Ddn't kill ya off with a soap box attack............    :confused:  

[Moen]

I agree with you, BigContry.

[Tom Leemans]

That would be and always will be the problem with message boards. You can't type emotion and inflection.

That said. You could google 'til the cows come home. You could watch a tape or DVD until you pass out. It could be spelled out for you, step by step right here. You could even have someone show you how, but you still have to get your hands dirty, shed a little blood here and there, and make plenty of mistakes before you become accomplished at what you do.

In my mind, no one has done more (and would probably deny it    ) to give wooden bow building a kick in the pants than Dean Torges. From his articles, to his books, to his video(s), his website, to hands on teaching. He has, no doubt, provided plenty of information for all of us. Information he could have kept to himself.  He is a master, but he is a master by doing. He'd be the first to encourage you to go ahead and get info, but most importantly, to grab some tools and get building! Nothing teaches like doing. I personally don't feel that sharing any secrets about any craft is bad. I'd rather learn how to make or do something myself any day, than watch it all on TV, or pay someone else to do everything for me.

[droptine59]

I dedicated my site to sharing secrets in bowyering, repair and the sort. Sharing is part of being a good human.

[bigcountry]

No doubt, Dean is very generous.  He told me he has no secrets he already given out in his books or even free notes on his page.  

People like this is who keep this tradition alive.  

 

Originally posted by Tom Leemans:
That would be and always will be the problem with message boards. You can't type emotion and inflection.

That said. You could google 'til the cows come home. You could watch a tape or DVD until you pass out. It could be spelled out for you, step by step right here. You could even have someone show you how, but you still have to get your hands dirty, shed a little blood here and there, and make plenty of mistakes before you become accomplished at what you do.

In my mind, no one has done more (and would probably deny it       ) to give wooden bow building a kick in the pants than Dean Torges. From his articles, to his books, to his video(s), his website, to hands on teaching. He has, no doubt, provided plenty of information for all of us. Information he could have kept to himself.  He is a master, but he is a master by doing. He'd be the first to encourage you to go ahead and get info, but most importantly, to grab some tools and get building! Nothing teaches like doing. I personally don't feel that sharing any secrets about any craft is bad. I'd rather learn how to make or do something myself any day, than watch it all on TV, or pay someone else to do everything for me.

[b.glass]

What Tom said x 10!

Bona

[M60gunner]

In our bamboo flyrod making class we either flame the clum very dark or use a oven. Our teachers oven we set at 400 and cook the boo for 8-10 minutes after we see steam. Either way works for us. If there is alot of moisture in the air we might do both but leave the sticks in a shorter time.