What do you consider accurate?

[Leef]

I really appreciate all the replies! My reason for asking the question....When I practice, I seem to shoot better when I shoot at different targets from varied distances.  Just standing and shooting from 20 yards, my groups are not good...shooting the varied distances and different targets I seem to keep it within 5" or so.  I think my grouping problem comes from a lack of concentration, on the spot, and on form.  What put you over the top with your shooting?  Is there one thing you can point to that made you improve the most?  Once again...thanks, all the information from experienced folks is cherished!

[Jerry Wald]

This is what I do. I hang my white feed bag full of shrink wrap. I draw a line to represent the back o fthe front leg. I draw a 6" dotted circle with a small black dot in the middle of that circle right where the vitals would be.

Then I start at 5 yards and shoot 3 arrows. If I miss with one arrow I repeat until I can get all three in there. I take 3 steps back and repeat until I can get all three in at 20 or more yards. I also stump shoot alot at ANY distance.

Jer Bear

[Gator1]

This has been a very informative thread.. The sooting cold really hit home with me.. When weather permits i shoot on on little in the am before work and what on on difference when it is five degrees and you draw that first arrow.. 3d targets are great tool IMO vs large bag targets there i considerably more missable space around on on 3D deer..,

[Big'n]

For the instinctive shooter: Shoot one arrow from different distances. The instinctive shooter learns very little from shooting groups.

If you want to work on form, get up close to the target and close your eyes and shoot. You can't concentrate on form and shoot accurately at the same time without a aiming system and even then it is debatable. IMO     DAVE

[Otto]

Big'n

Respectfully, I disagree.  As I stated earlier, shoot a group of arrows at the same bull from varying distances.  You'll learn a tremendous amount from that group.  You'll learn if you consistantly hit left, right, high or low.  You'll learn if you're loosing back tension or collapsing on release.  There's a ton of stuff you'll learn.  And you can work on form and shoot accurately.  See the picture I posted.  Anytime I practice, I'm working on something.

[Ralph Renfro]

I'm with the one arrow accuracy crowd. For the last week prior to heading to Manitoba to bear hunt, I take one shot in the morning and one shot in the evening. I do this at my self imposed max distance. You only get one chance, same as a hunting situation. Throw in a thought such as, " This is a $1500 shot", and you'll tend to concentrate.

[JC]

Originally posted by Big'n:
You can't concentrate on form and shoot accurately at the same time without a aiming system and even then it is debatable. IMO     DAVE

I would debate that one...but, that's another thread.

To me, the original poster's question is, from him as an ex compound shooter, "what should a realistic expectation of accuracy be." To me, I think trad bowhunters too often accept mediocre accuracy. While we all can't be Howard Hill or Larry Yien, or Rod Jenkins, with proper practice and time, a properly fitting bow/grip, a well tuned arrow, I think ANYONE can consistently hit a coke can at 20 yards. Not to degrade or put anyone down, but me personally, I will not accept "pie plate" accuracy unless we are talking about 40 yards +.

To me, "accurate" with a stickbow is being able to consistently (7/10 or better) hit a golf ball out to 10-15 yards, a tennis ball to 20-25, a softball or so at 30...and when you miss, you're usually scarin it so bad it ain't funny. If you refuse to accept less accuracy, you will be amazed at what you can accomplish with a stickbow. And no, I don't think those are "Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods" type goals...because I know quite a few who are at that level.

My Grandfather used to say something like this, and I am paraphrasing here "In most anything I can think of in this life, you will perform at the level that you eventually decide is acceptable. Where that level is, is sometimes up to you...but don't think that everyone else's level has to be yours, above or below, it all comes down to your choice and how hard or easy, you decide to work at it."

And for the guys esposing it must be a cold shot, while I agree in part, how much better would you be if you stumped a few on your way to the afternoon stand or shot a few in the headlights where you park your truck before going in for a morning hunt? I have confidence in my shooting, but when possible, there is nothing better than shooting a few great shots right before you "step on stage".

[vermonster13]

I hope to be able to hit the broadside of a barn from the inside someday. Maybe if I keep practicing.    

[Rico]

I will not accept "pie plate" accuracy unless we are talking about 40 yards +.
 
 Why would  pie plate be acceptable at 40+ but not 20?

[myshootinstinks]

 Dave, you and I should go shooting together, sounds like we're on about the same level of skill.  I don't think I could make 70% hits on a golf ball at 15 yards or a pie plate plate at 40+ yards if my life depended on it.  

[beyondmyken]

Aim small, hit small.  I don't think shooting groups is good simply because you tend to focus on the arrows rather than the spot on the target.

[Leef]

Shot 100 arrows today, about 75% of them were within 6" of my target (water bottle cap) at varied distances from 10-25 yards.  My main concern today was that I had some horrible shots (10-15" misses) and I don't know what caused them.  All together I am getting better and when I really concentrate I'm putting them in the right spot, its kind of like golf...it's hard to concentrate on every one.

[Otto]

Rico

It's the same methodology as is used in shooting a rifle.  A rifle capable of shooting a 1 inch group at 100 yds will shoot a larger group at a longer distance,  i.e.  2" at 200 yds, 4" at 400 yds etc....  ignoring the effects of the wind of course.  So we accept the premise that our groups will get larger as we move away from the target.

[SHOOTO8S]

Originally posted by JC:

My Grandfather used to say something like this, and I am paraphrasing here "In most anything I can think of in this life, you will perform at the level that you eventually decide is acceptable. Where that level is, is sometimes up to you...but don't think that everyone else's level has to be yours, above or below, it all comes down to your choice and how hard or easy, you decide to work at it."

 [/b]

JC, your Grandfather sound like my kind of guy!

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Originally posted by SHOOTO8S:
JC, your Grandfather sound like my kind of guy!

Much agreed!

[laddy]

I think I have some sort of OCD, obbssesive cumpulsive dmentia, I start out every spring shooting not so bad in my back yard.  As the summer wares on, I find that I shoot more and more faster and faster until I am nuts, always trying to fix that one little thing.  Until a definite flinch starts to come on.  I think that over doing it on a single target can make your concentration wonder if one is not very careful.  I can learn more in 50 arrows roving and small game hunting than I can with 5000 shots at a flat target or a rubber deer in my back yard.  there is just something about shooting live fur that i need to be able to do before deer season to have the mental control I need.

[Rico]

I understand that Otto if pie plate is good enough accuracy for hunting at 40 yds + shouldn't pie plate be good enough at 20 or under if all you're shots are going to be 20 or under?

[Otto]

Rico

I won't answer for JC but I didn't see him use the word "hunting" in his definition of acceptable 40 yard accuracy.  He may have meant that but I won't attempt to read anything into his response.

I'd be tickled to death to put a dozen arrows into a pie plate at 40 yards.  If that was all the better I could do at 20, then I would work to improve myself quite a bit before I went hunting.

[Rico]

You maybe right Otto the topic was hunting accuracy could be I incorrectly assumed.  There are archers that will accept pie plate at 40 and beyond but not 20 for hunting which makes no sence to me.

[JC]

Rico, because I wouldn't shoot at a deer at 40...but I'd shoot at an elk at 40 because a "pie plate" is well within it's vital size. In my experience, limited though it may be compared to some, if you are shooting say 4" groups of 4-6 arrows at 20 yards, you more than likely will be shooting maybe 6-8" single arrow groups at that same distance under the pressure of live big game...at least for ME that holds true.

For me, there is no comparison in the pressure between shooting foam, even in a big tournament, and shooting live, breathing, moving, "about to bust you and blow out of there" big game. In my humble opinion, the ONLY way to get better at shooting big game is to spend a lot of time in bow range of big game and shooting big game. Until I feel as confident on big game as I do on anything inanimate (and small game), I personally will stick to an ever increasing, very high standard of accuracy. And then, even if/when I do become that confident, I'll still probably stick to that same level of accuracy because I know it is not a dream...it can be a reality. It just takes the appropriate mindset, appropriate practice, and appropriate equipment. Your mileage may vary...but it works for me.

Otto,  at the level I require of myself I find it very difficult to concentrate for 12 arrows. Typically, if I shoot groups at long distances it's 3-6 arrows. If I'm not mentally spent after 6 shots in a row, I'm not concentrating hard enough. Again, ymmv.

Rod, coming from you, that certainly means a lot. You have been instrumental in helping me stretch outside of comfort zone in attaining accuracy I previously thought unreachable. Many thanks for your example and advice.

Jason, from what Charlie says about you, I'm sure you and my Grandfather would have got along famously. Hope to share a camp with you someday.