Author Topic: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along  (Read 20006 times)

Offline 4est trekker

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Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #100 on: November 23, 2009, 05:48:00 PM »
David: I'm thrilled you ended up with a solid, good shooter!  The nice thing about these bows is they betray their looks.  That is, they can sometimes look clunky, bulky, and slow.  However, they often provide some of the smoothest drawing, sweet shooters.  The design is perfectly suited for a board bow, is very efficient, and provides a high margin of safety.  I'd love to see some pictures of how your bow turned out!  Also, did you use the dimensions in the build-along or tailor them to your needs/liking?  I know this bow looks a bit overbuilt, and by most standards is.  However, when I had my cousin shoot a 500 grain arrow through the chronograph, it was shooting between 151-155 fps at 26 inches of draw.  26" a pretty short draw length for a bow this long, but it is performing above average.  In fact, generally an average (good) bow will shoot (100+Draweight@28") fps.  A shorter draw length on a bow this long will often lower the fps because the bow isn't getting into its power stroke.  

Lone Hunter: Good luck and thanks for the kind words.  With proper construction and care, a bow like this can last a lifetime.  This will depend greatly upon things like wood selection, tiller, how and where you store the bow, the method you use to string it, abuse, the weight of arrows you're shooting, etc.  But heck, even if it blows up after your first hunting season, it'll give you a good reason to build another, right?  Plus, it's cheap!     :thumbsup:   Remember to post some pictures!
"Walk softly...and carry a bent stick."

"And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, giving thanks to God the Father through him."  Col. 3:17

Offline SSGN_Doc

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Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #101 on: November 23, 2009, 09:22:00 PM »
I'm glad Dave pointed me to this build along.  We've both been experimenting with board bow building, and it's nice to find a forgiving design that yields a useful bow.

My glue up is done, and I spent a portion of my afternoon at Dave's using his bandsaw to get mine going.  I'm trying the "bulbous center" handle style so Dave and I can get a better idea of which we prefer. I've still got a ways to go on evening out the belly of mine, (I don't have a lot of faith in my bandsaw skills so I left a bit more than just the cut line when I cut the side profile off the belly, and this left a lot of rasping for me to do).

Dave did a lot of sanding and burnishing on his, and I got to see the first coat of stain go on his bow.  I'll have to take the camera over when I go back to fit my nock tips and finish evening out the belly. ( I also need to remember to take the string making supplies.  Sorry Dave.)

Dave's bow is a sweet shooter and I can hardly wait to finish mine and try it out.

Next project will be to make a kids version for my daughter.  It broke my heart to watch her cry after I broke my last attempt at a board bow for her.  I think this design shows good promise for making a bow that will work out for her as well.

HMC(SS) Mark Sizemore
Submarine Force Independent Duty Corpsman
Kings Bay, GA

Offline 4est trekker

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Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #102 on: November 27, 2009, 12:37:00 AM »
Jesse:  Well, after I reread your post, I figured out what you were talking about.  I've pasted a picture below from one of my favorite pyramid bow makers (Kunst-Griff).  Let me know if this is what you're talking about.  If that's the case, man would that be a lot easier.  I just never considered it before.  I even like the look of it a lot better.  You can make out the end of the limb flare (i.e. it's widest point) just as the limb thickness begins to transition into the handle.  Thanks for the suggestion.  I enjoy learning.

 
"Walk softly...and carry a bent stick."

"And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, giving thanks to God the Father through him."  Col. 3:17

Offline 4est trekker

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Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #103 on: November 27, 2009, 12:40:00 AM »
Some folks have been asking about tillering strings.  Below is a picture of the style that I use.  It is made by bowyers Kunst-Griff.  They actually sell it as a bow stringer, but it will serve both purposes.  Your string length should be adjustable.  For use a tillering string, you want it just long enough to be able to slip the boots over both ends of the bow and no longer.  For use as a stringer, you want to make it about a foot longer than the bow.

 
"Walk softly...and carry a bent stick."

"And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, giving thanks to God the Father through him."  Col. 3:17

Offline SSGN_Doc

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Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #104 on: November 27, 2009, 10:06:00 AM »
Well I finished the major sanding, and have to go over everything with some fine sand paper before applying a finish.

Here's where I am so far:
 

 
You might be able to notice the package with the French Curve in it in the upper right, if anyone was curious what one looks like.  I found my set of 3 at Office Depot for $9.

 
I went with the bulb center handle.  You can notice I put an arrow in the middle so I know which limb is top until I get the handle and rest placed.  

Lower limb is a bit stiffer, but the thing shoots nice the way it is an I don't want to lose any more draw weight.  She pulls 50 lbs at 26".  I thinned the limbs down to 13/32".  (I may have gotten a denser board, but 15/32 was probably well over 60#).

It's been a cool project with satisfying results so far.  Dave and I put a few arrows through it while the handle was still just roughed out.  It seems to be pretty fast shooting and puts them where you look at 10 paces.

Thanks, especially to Dave for all the use of his big power tools.  (Since I lack the band saw.)
Also, thanks again for this great tutorial 4est.

For a tillering string we used a single loop Flemish twist string with a bowyers knot on the other end.

Trying to decide on color.  I've got some green stain that is tempting, but the other options are Walnut, Classic Oak, Red Oak, or Gunstock.

Mark

Offline 4est trekker

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Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #105 on: November 27, 2009, 10:51:00 AM »
Yeah, buddy!  Way to go, Mark.    :thumbsup:   I'm glad it's worked out for you, and I really enjoy seeing the pictures.  Glad you were able to nail your target weight.  It's difficult to prescribe "recipes" for non-laminated and unbacked wooden bows like you can for laminated wood/glass bows.  A 1/16" of an inch variation isn't bad given all the factors that come into play. Congrats on a fine bow!

You mention that the lower limb is too stiff.  Actually, this is a good thing, depending on where and to what extent it's stiffer.  Check the bow at full draw using a mirror, camera, or friend. Most often the lower limb undergoes more strain than the top limb when the bow is drawn in the hand, and therefore should be slightly stiffer.  This is referred to as positive tiller and is called such because the string will be further from the fades on the top limb than on the bottom.  It will generally look slightly uneven at brace and when drawn on the tillering tree.  However, it should even right out when drawn in the hand depending on how much heel pressure you use on your bow hand, where you're nock point is at, and what release you're using.

Again, congrats.  Can't wait to see the finished product!   :thumbsup:
"Walk softly...and carry a bent stick."

"And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, giving thanks to God the Father through him."  Col. 3:17

Offline Jesse Peltan

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Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #106 on: November 27, 2009, 11:35:00 AM »
4est trekker, that's exactly what I'm talking about. It gives you a shorter smoother fade, more working limb, better transition, etc. I also like the looks of it better. I think it would be a lot easier to make.

Offline SSGN_Doc

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Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #107 on: November 27, 2009, 12:28:00 PM »
The positive tiller is why I marked the bow so I would remember which is top and which is bottom.   ;)  

I wanted the lower limb stiffer for just the reasons you list.

I had Dave check it as I drew it and we think I't needed to come down just a hair, and was looking a bit stiffer at mid limb before the glue-on recurve.  I just did a bit more heavy sanding and am pretty happy with where it's at.

 

 

Offline Jesse Peltan

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Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #108 on: November 27, 2009, 04:42:00 PM »
4est, I think the smoother fade would be easier for a first timer because the transition between the riser and limb thickness wouldn't be as abrupt so there would be less chance of going to deep in the limb.

Offline David Holt

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Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #109 on: November 28, 2009, 04:56:00 PM »
4est, I haven't forgot about posting pics. I've been staring at the bow for a few day trying to figurer out what kind of wrap and whether or not to put on an arrow rest. I had to wait until mark was done wirh all his sanding before I could seal in up. I stained it with minwax stain ,d sealer and put on 4 coat of deft. It is 67"NtN and pulls 40# @ 28". I had a little accident with the band saw so the lims are onlt 3/8" thick. We were a little more carefull with Marks ans his wa s pulling 52# @ 25" last I saw him. I've already had two fellow hunters who have never shot anything but compound bows be so amazed at how well this bow shoots, and off the hand with NO ARROW REST!  Who'd a thunk it ever possible!  Thanks again. Ill send picks soon. I'm in the stand right now waiting on supper to show up!
HMC(SS/SW) David Holt
Submarine Force Independent Duty Corpsman
HOO-YAH

Offline SSGN_Doc

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Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #110 on: November 28, 2009, 05:19:00 PM »
Hey Dave,

I just finished wrapping my handle this afternoon.  It came out pretty nice and is a nice match for the Purple Heart overlays.

   

   

I went with some of that red leather thread I had.  I super glued it in places underneath as I went along to maintain tension. I used a leather shaving for an arrow plate, and another small wedge of leather that I rounded on the top as an arrow rest.  It was really bright red but I coated it with Titebond III and it became a very nice purple/burgundy.

I've got more of the leather that I used if you need it, Dave.

Offline 4est trekker

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Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #111 on: November 28, 2009, 06:43:00 PM »
Yeah!  Looking good!     :thumbsup:   I'm glad they shoot well for you.  Maybe your friends will get the bug, too!  As I said in an earlier post, the physical size of pyramid bows often mask their actual performance.  They generally do shoot very well by nature of their design.  

You guys keep it up, and if anybody else is building one, don't be afraid to post some pictures!    :)
"Walk softly...and carry a bent stick."

"And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, giving thanks to God the Father through him."  Col. 3:17

Offline TXNeal

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Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #112 on: December 01, 2009, 04:55:00 PM »
This is my first post here, but I've been coming and reading through this thread for the past couple of days.

I'm really interested in making one of these bows and intend to purchase the lumber this weekend when I will be making a roadtrip to a place with a Lowes or Home Depot. Should I be able to find red oak at one of these places? I'm also curious to know how much a board of the proper dimensions will cost. If they are affordable, I may even purchase several of them if I can find that many with good grain.

I've been interested in building a bow for many years now and have made a few failed attempts, but I'm still wanting to do it. In fact, I have been collecting osage orange logs for about 25 years and have a stack of them in my back yard. I recently met a bowyer who works with osage and he has agreed to help me with my next attempt, but I think that I would like to try one of these red oak bows as a practice run.

I'm a welding and woodworking teacher in a high school, so I have access to a shop with everything I need and I'm thinking that I might do this project at school and see if I can't get a couple of students to take an interest in building one of their own. It might make for a pretty cool teaching/learning experience for me to be helping my students build bows!  Of course, I think I'll need to run this one by the superintendent first to make sure I'm not violating any district policies by having my students build "weapons" at school.

Anyway, I think this is a great thread and I do intend to follow through with giving it a try. If any of you guys can give me a rough estimate of what this red oak lumber will cost, I would appreciate it. Also, if you know whether Home Depot or Lowes would be the place to look for it, that would be helpful to.  I live in a pretty remote area, where there is no place nearby to purchase hardwood lumber without placing a special order, so I'm not really familiar with retail stores that sell it. Thanks for any help you can provide!

Offline sssnap

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Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #113 on: December 01, 2009, 07:05:00 PM »
TXNeal- PM sent
Ron Weaver

Offline SSGN_Doc

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Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #114 on: December 01, 2009, 09:31:00 PM »
I found a good board that was 8 feet long at a Lowes and a 7 foot board at a Home Depot.  searched through over 30 boards to find 2 that were good enough to use.  I think I paid about $15 for the 8 foot board and $12 for the 7 footer.

Offline TXNeal

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Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #115 on: December 02, 2009, 11:52:00 AM »
Thanks for the advice on where to find wood. I'll be searching for a few boards this weekend.

In the PM I received from sssnap, he mentioned having had some problems with the wood being too dry and needing to be re-humidified. Unfornutately, I live in an arid desert environment and our humidity stays very low at most times, so if the wood needs more humidification, I'm not sure how I would accomplish that.

I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced problems with the red oak being too dry and if there are any suggestions for what I might do to remedy the problem in a low humidity environment?

I've mentioned this project to some students today and already have three guys who are really excited about giving it a try, so I'm going to make an effort to get some boards and turn them into bows. Maybe we will luck out and the moisture issue will not present a problem.

Offline bubby

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Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #116 on: December 10, 2009, 11:01:00 PM »
4est, wanted to let you know the glue on recurves worked on my boo backed epe. had a bad splinter at the tip of the boo, so it went from 70" ntn to 62" ntn 63# @ 29" with just a little hand shock till the silencers went on. but i think thats normal with a bendy handle bow that short. i'll try to post some pics if i can figure out how to do it

Offline R.W.

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Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #117 on: December 11, 2009, 11:40:00 PM »
4est,

I have been shooting the board bow I built from your build-a-long. (45#@28")

Quite a bit of hand shock, I notice. This with a 50# spine POC arrow with 160 grain feild point.

Would "trapping" the limbs reduce the handshock?

I believe that lighting the limbs by trapezoid shaping of them should reduce hand shock, and improve cast.

Sorry I can't post pictures, as I am not into the "digital" age .(or even film photography)

Offline 4est trekker

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Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #118 on: December 12, 2009, 09:38:00 AM »
R.W.: I'm glad your bow is shooting!  Way to go    :thumbsup:    Sorry fot the long reply, but here goes:  

Regarding the handshock:

1) With a non-centershot bow, you really need to shoot arrows that are lower in spine weight than your draw weight.  I usually go around 5-10#, sometimes even 15# lower in spine weight.  This could be the source of your handshock alone, as the arrow won't bend gracefully around the handle during release.  Rather, it slams into the side of the handle.    160 grains is a healthy point, but I'm not sure it's enough to offset a 50# spined shaft. How's the arrow flight at say, 15-20 yards?

2) When you've got properly spined shafts, be critical of the total mass of the arrows.  10 grains per pound plus is where you'll be transferring nearly all the energy of the bow into the arrow (that is, and NOT into excess vibration that causes handshock).  I would say that arrow tuning is the most important and most forgotten about aspect of tuning wooden bows.

3) At the same time you're checking your arrow set up,  check the tiller.   Make sure it's even at full drawn when DRAWN IN THE HAND.  The tillering tree won't tell you much, as it can't mimic your hand placement, grip, draw, etc.  Small adjusts here can take a bone-jarring bow down to a sweet shooter in a hurry...with proper arrows, that is.

4)  If full-draw tiller and arrows both check out, try this step.  If you've built the bow to exactly the dimensions I gave in the tutorial, it will be overbuilt by some degree.  I would first gradually narrow the width SLIGHTLY in the outer 1/3 of each limb toward the tips.  This will reduce outer limb mass and have little effect on tiller, as the bow doesn't do that much work in this region.  A LITTLE here can go a long way.  However, if you take off too much, you'll end up with a whip tillered bow, or worse yet one with a hinge or that will fail altogether.  But don't be shy about it.  Remember that wood is 8x stronger in thickness than in width.

5)  Failing all of that you could consider trapping.  There is enough wood in the bow to allow it, I believe.  However, I rarely trap bows in this way, so I would not be the best resource for this.  (I often use "heat trapping" [i.e. tempering the belly] which serves a similar purpose to back trapping, but is achieved through other means.)  

I hope this helps you.  You can get a sweet shooter out of this bow, no doubt.  Take it slow and methodically.  I like to keep notes as I go when tuning a bow.  Also, do you have silencers on your bow?  They dampen vibration, which is the culprit anyway.  You could also be critical of your string (too thick or thin?), nock placement (too high or low?), release (are you plucking the string?), bow-hand grip (are you torquing the bow?), etc.  Keep us posted!  You'll get there.
"Walk softly...and carry a bent stick."

"And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, giving thanks to God the Father through him."  Col. 3:17

Offline R.W.

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Re: The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along
« Reply #119 on: December 12, 2009, 08:30:00 PM »
4est,

Went to a "500" carbon shaft with weight tube. 590 gr total weight.

These are shooting quite well, and am experiencing less shock.

No silencers yet. Will have to get some wool and make up a bunch.

I have lightened the end third of the limbs, as per your recommendations

If I heat treat the belly of the bow, how long should I leave it to allow the wood to re-hydrate? I don't have a moisture meter, so I will have to "guesstimate" that.

I figure about 2 weeks should allow a good safety margin in re-hydrating the wood.

Thanks for all your help, 4est.

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