The "So You Wanna Build a Bow?" Build-Along

[4est trekker]

52" with a rigid handle is short, man.  If you made it bend in the handle you could get a serviceable short-draw plains style bow out of it (say 21-22"), but I wouldn't attempt a full-draw bow that short with a rigid handle out of white oak.

[hova]

yeah after looking at others' outcomes,I was thinking I may have to go 55 long,and keep my draw a little short.

now that I look at it though,  i don't think the grain will like more than 52 or 53" max.

I may work with the handle/fade numbers to see if I can squeeze a little more limb out of it.

ever heard of using a furniture type veneer for backing ?

-hov

[rover brewer]

4est,has anyone tryed black landscape fabric as backing, I'm not talking about the thick stuff but the thin stuff that looks almost like fiber glass it real tuff to cut.anyone out there,try it. any toughts on it.

[4est trekker]

I saw it used once, but can't attest to it's effectiveness.  One bow isn't really grounds for a yay or nay answer.  I personally wouldn't use it when there are many tried and true options out there that are readily available (i.e. brown paper, silk, linen, burlap, rawhide, etc.).

[hova]

you talkin to me or rover?


-hov

[rover brewer]

thanks, I'm going to use brown paper I just found some of the fabric left over from yard work and the light bulb came on in the brain.about the linen is that like bed sheets or can you use bed sheets.

[fujimo]

hey HOVA
if your board is 4" wide, why not build 2 halves and splice them, then glue the handle riser on afterwards.
then maybe glue a thin "back riser"( dunno what the correct name for it is!!!) i have seen that done with the limbs simply butt joined - but i would rather scarf join them( real easy to do!!!) -just to be safe. the idea is to avoid the complexity of a Z splice join- as you are trying to keep things as simple as possible.
that way you can get a full length bow, and really get a close match on the risers.( cut them right where the handles end on the limbs)
or make aatake down bow- i have used those sleeves from 3 rivers- i like em- some dont!!!
good luck
wayne

[hova]

splicing hadn't even crossed my mind. ill look into it , but I could always use an example

I was pondering trying to do the pyramid layout, and narrow the handle, but not use a rigid riser. the superglued layers of leather would give me some bulk for the hand, but I think I'd have to be really careful as to my thickness and quasi fade area... I'm gonna hit the drawing board...

-hov

[hova]

splicing hadn't even crossed my mind. ill look into it , but I could always use an example

I was pondering trying to do the pyramid layout, and narrow the handle, but not use a rigid riser. the superglued layers of leather would give me some bulk for the hand, but I think I'd have to be really careful as to my thickness and quasi fade area... I'm gonna hit the drawing board...

-hov

[fujimo]

with a scarf, all you are doing is increasing the glueing suface area- much like a Z splice does.
all you do is taper the one side down - kinda like a wedge- then do the opposite wedge- and glue together- so that when viewed from the side there will be a diagonal line- but from front or back, just a short side to side line.
send me a fax no. and i will fax you a drawing first thing in the morning.
when i build boats, we work with a minimum of a 8:1 joint- ie. for each inch of thickness- there is 8 inches of length to the joint.

now that ratio may not work- because you dont want thejoint extending out into the working area of the limbs or fades!!!!!!!!- so feel free to shorten the ratio to match your handle- as this joint would be re-inforced by both the belly riser and the back riser. and would be more than strong enough- considering that it is also going to be a stiff handled bow.
if you were wanting to build a bend thru the handle bow- i would certianally Z splice it.
they are not to hard to do- but i would glue them with epoxy or urac.
i really like urac- so easy to use- easy to clean up with water- easy to get it to set- and has some good gap filling properties- i glue all my backings on with it.
regards
wayne

[hova]

i just did a little googling , and searched for a scarf joint trad bow. got a paleo site post about a rawhide handle takedown. not really my style , but it got me thinking.

im gonna go do some paint work cause a picture is a much better narrator than me...

[hova]

ok , so heres my splice idea. the handle area would be a little smaller , the pic isnt to scale , and im pretty sure i would have to make like a bulbous handle , out of wood , and have it fit in between the fades. basically i am thinking the limbs are going to have to have the fades in them , and just spliced for about 6-8" (15/32 i could probably get away with 4.5" of scarf , but if the handle itself is 5-6" or more , then there is no reason not to take advantage of it.

im also curious if it would work without a pin , if i ran the scarf a little longer into the opposing joint.


id have to slice into the fade though if i tried that , so i cant say its possible with my current design idea.

 

so basically , im thinking if i can somehow split the board i have (handsaw is all thats available right now) , then i might be able to make a little heavier/more realiable pyramid , and possibly with the option of takedown...


come to think of it , the sawmill had blocks of exotics for 4.99 each... hmmmmmm...


-hov

[hova]

come to think of it , heres a little more of what i was thinking...

 

[fujimo]

hova.
i wouldnt worry about the pin, it you are glueing on the back and belly risers over the scarf- as i remember  one guy butted the two limbs and then glued on the two reisers, and for his50lb bow it worked fine. but i would rather scarf the limbs, just make the scarf as long as you can, and stay outta the fades-
do the scarf before you cut the side shapes on the handle area.
after dry trim up the sides, and glue on the risers.
because the faces are tapered, clamp a block at each limb tip on your bench, cos as you tighten the clamp(dont over tighten) on the joint they will wanna slide apart- two tapers lubed up with glue!!!!- so the end blocks will stop that.
draw a line down the center of each limb, so that you can line them up with a string, or long straight edge befor youy glue up.
and either draw around the two limbs, or make some register marks, so that when you glue and clamp, they will be perfectly lined up- remember your clamp will be in the way so you wont be able to see once you glue it.

scarf joints are incredibly strong- and on the tests done for boatbuilding. the scarf is stronger than the surrounding wood- think of a 50' mast- they are allscarfed- and flex plenty!!!!
i would keep the back riser nice and slim and pretty- no need to make the handle huge and bulbous and unwieldly, all you wanna do is stop the end points of the scarf lifting- and the joint starting to fail.
it is just added security, in case your handle ends up  flexind slightly .
but keep it stiff- and it will be good.
wayne

[hova]

fuji : the illustrations have a scarf joint , and it makes sense, so i plan on using it if i end up splitting my board into billets.

the more i think about it , its something i want to do , but maybe with something worth all the time.

i have been kicking it around in my head all morning , and what i am thinking of , is getting a block of purpleheart or some other exotic that the local sawmill has , and making a sort of mini riser-takedown tube sorta thingy...then i would make the limbs so that the fade was glued to the limb , and the scarf cut would be where the handle of a normal pyramid is , but the two pieces would slide into the tube , locking them thusly. thats where the idea for the pin came into play. i would probably make the pin one of the exotics that would be in the handle.

my main issue is the fact that hollowing a chunk of something hard as purpleheart would probably be horrible. basically what i came up with to solve this , is split the outer shell in the middle of the belly and back , longways. then cut a half a square into each halve. then basically make a smaller sleeve out of phenolic or something similar , into square tubing. the only difference is the inside of this would be formed to the male ends of the limbs.


it would be a lot of work , and im sure theres easier ways , but i want to work with cherry , i can get it locally , but grain may be tough to find long.


i think with the board i have , im going to go ahead and make it 53"tip to tip , with the 4est glued on recurve tips , but carve some brush nocks into it. make it a brush stalker.


picking up a new straightedge and some other small tools today to start cutting into this stick.


-hov

[Ricky Wallace]

Let me go ahead and add mine!!  Started working on my version a couple days ago,I went and bought a new bandsaw blade {10" craftsman} Set it up,2 inches in,blade broke. Went and got another blade,2 more inches,blade broke. Said lots of bad words,glad no women or children were in the shop,,So i decided to cut the side profile with my jigsaw,{LONG BLADES} And my scroll saw. Then finish off with the drawknife,scraper ect,,That is not the recomended way to do this!It took almost all day and I still aint done.The only mistake I made I think, was I had to go about an eighth of an inch thinner than the original plans,Yall think that will be OK? I hope so,cause until I get that new bandsaw I have been wanting im not doing another one of these! I normally build the Sam Harper style red oak bows,This one is an adventure!! But it is fun!!!         Rick

[fish n chicks]

Originally posted by Ricky Wallace:
Let me go ahead and add mine!!  Started working on my version a couple days ago,I went and bought a new bandsaw blade {10" craftsman} Set it up,2 inches in,blade broke. Went and got another blade,2 more inches,blade broke. Said lots of bad words,glad no women or children were in the shop,,So i decided to cut the side profile with my jigsaw,{LONG BLADES} And my scroll saw. Then finish off with the drawknife,scraper ect,,That is not the recomended way to do this!It took almost all day and I still aint done.The only mistake I made I think, was I had to go about an eighth of an inch thinner than the original plans,Yall think that will be OK? I hope so,cause until I get that new bandsaw I have been wanting im not doing another one of these! I normally build the Sam Harper style red oak bows,This one is an adventure!! But it is fun!!!         Rick

Bansaws can make or break your bow. lol. That's not literal enough is it? Plus, where are the pics?

[Ricky Wallace]

Ill get some up tonight,,{when my daughter gets home}I still cant figure out how to post them. Give me a pile of lumber and I can build anything you want but im very illiterate with a computor! Im trying to learn!

[hova]

i doubt you should have any issues with a little bit less. just make sure you take your time tillering and you should be fine.

and update on mine , is the siyah arms are cut and angled , they need shaped and glued , and some black locust is drying , and im going to work on a short skinny pyramid , but bend through the handle.
lets see some pics wallace!


-hov

[Ricky Wallace]

 

 

 

I know,it looks strange,,I cut the handle 1 1/2 inches and immediatly had a problem.So I cut the arrow pass which I prefer anyway,and it is still 3/4 inch thick at that point.If it dont work I have more boards! The little red one I made for my granddaughter.