Flemish string making and lots of cussin

[fish n chicks]

After paying more for a string for my board bow than all the materials I used for the bow itself, I figured flemish was the way to go. So I made the jig found on this site, and watched umpteen videos, and two questions continue to thwart my efforts:

How do you braid two ends of a string without twisting the first segment of the string in a way that allows the second end to be braided as well? I seem to keep screwing up the braiding for the the main length of string.

And this is the biggun. My strings keep coming up short!! I made my first on on the jig, looked good, strong, braided nicely yadda yadda but too darn short! So I measured the center post on my jig again and the nails and measure the path and added 10" to the string length needed for when you flip your braided loop back to finish your splice, and i'm still coming up maybe 8-10" short. I've made two strings now for this bow, both of them too darn short, and my jig now looks like a graffiti clad railcar with all the new markings.

I'm just tired of throwing away material learning how to make the right length string. What am I doing wrong?

[frank bullitt]

Jon, if I understand what you are saying, when doing the second loop, how too keep the other end from untwisting?

After I twist up my top loop, I tie a piece of string thread at the stopping point of my neck twists. You can use a twist tie or small clamp or even a padded vice. Now take all of the twist out to the other end of each bundle, wax the ends, and now put reverse twists,I put about 12, measure for your bottom loop and start twisting.

The trick is holding the 2 bundles why you put in the reverse twists. Just takes some practice!

As for the length, I don't like the jig boards. Everyone has different formulas for lengths and loop measurements. Don't forget your string will be about an inch shorter or more before being put under tension, and stretches.

Try just taking 2 nails and adding 16 inches to the length of the bow and wind out your bundles.  Then make a string, if its too long, take one end apart, and lengthen the start of the loop or cut about 1" off and try again.

Keep at it, we are here to help!

[frank bullitt]

Jon, if I understand what you are saying, when doing the second loop, how too keep the other end from untwisting?

After I twist up my top loop, I tie a piece of string thread at the stopping point of my neck twists. You can use a twist tie or small clamp or even a padded vice. Now take all of the twist out to the other end of each bundle, wax the ends, and now put reverse twists,I put about 12, measure for your bottom loop and start twisting.

The trick is holding the 2 bundles why you put in the reverse twists. Just takes some practice!

As for the length, I don't like the jig boards. Everyone has different formulas for lengths and loop measurements. Don't forget your string will be about an inch shorter or more before being put under tension, and stretches.

Try just taking 2 nails and adding 16 inches to the length of the bow and wind out your bundles.  Then make a string, if its too long, take one end apart, and lengthen the start of the loop or cut about 1" off and try again.

Keep at it, we are here to help!

[Col HJ]

I think Flemish strings are works of art and I really admire the folks that make them but I have way too many thumbs to attempt one. With my simple jig I can finish an endless loop string in minutes and never a problem with the length.

[kiltedcelt]

You could just skip the second loop and just tie a bowyer's knot at that end. That's pretty much the way I do all of my Flemish twist strings. I just make a loop on one end and tie it on the other. If you go that route, for whatever reason, tradition is to put the knot on the top and the loop on the bottom.

[walkabout]

i use a board that i drill new holes for pegs as i make diferent length strings, then just wind around as many times as i need for the desired length. as far as coming up short you may have twisted the whole string too much, ive done this then had to redo a string because of it. as far as the opposite end coming unwound i use a twist tie down at the end of the first twist, but for my loops i  sorta weave the ends through the original twists to hold them. found the method after searching rope splicing and it works pretty well. takes some time trying to not get confused but if ya go slow it usually ends up ok.

[walkabout]

second the bowyers knot on the other end by the way, it makes it much less complicated at first, plus lets you adjust it as you go. i still use one from my longbow to tiller shorter bows since its done in this manner. its nice to not have to make a new string for every bow youre working on right off the bat.

[Loren Holland]

Fish,
dpending on your string material you will get more stretch. i use b50 that stretches an inch to an inch and a half, i buy the cheaper stuff, i think you can get prestressed? a lot of guys argues about the number of strands, but better to be safe and add a strand or two more than you need than the other way, just keep the strand even and don't go more than 7 strings in one strand. I know it gets a little more complicated when you start go three sets of 5, instead of 2 sets of 8, but thats actually safer (once you get over 7 strings in a strands, then some of them will not be doing equal work and you will actually have an underweight string)

all that aside, i don't use jigs...i pull off the first string 10 inches longer than the nocks of the bow on both sides, this will give you a little waste but not much, then cut the rest to match.  I i make the first loop at least 8 inches from the end, this gives me plenty of strand to work back into the string, and room to taper it down.  don't be tempted to twist it too much, i know it looks good, but the less twists the stronger, really.

when it comes time for the second loop i just start it the width of my hand below the second nock. i leave the first loop nocked that way it won't move on you, and is stays a good reference for length.

some folks say to leave a little gap between the regular twist and the second loop, but i don't like it. i just keep twisting the same all the way up to my second loop. mark where i want it to start, then twist enough length to make the loop on top of that by actually wrapping it around the bow once to check, then i line up the colors, and insert on of my arrow shafts between the strands.  by inserting it in the hole of the twist between the 2 colors (of the full straing portion that you are twisting back into) you can keep it seperated. then one color back onto itself at least two wrap, then the other color on itself 2 wraps, pull out the shaft, and move it down one twist (once again of the full string portion moving back toward nock one), i repeat this untill i have two wraps back into the main string, in each of at least 7 twists.  I don't even try to taper the second wrap back into the main string, i just serve it.  i also pad the loops, by serving. some folks say it is too heavy and can be measure in grain weight, i just like the durability

does this make any sense?

[Loren Holland]

oh i forgot. once you shoot b50 and all the sudden notice some string slap, yep it stretched on you.  i always wait to serve the second loop, untill i strech the string. i undo the loop and shorten it one inch. (thats why i twist the ends back into the main string with two wraps per main twist for 7 twists. its safe but easy to undo and shorten ( with a little practice) after that if you need any adjustment you can twist the string a few times. some folks just twist it, instead of taking the time to shorten it that inch after it stretches. but i don't like to weaken a string, or slow it down anymore than i have to, so i shorten it, and then i only have to twist it a couple of times for adjustment vs 10-12 times

also when not on the bow i use a paper clip to keep the nocks facing the same way they would on the bow and not twist any, that way next time they are the same, exactly

[AkDan]

find the video doing the twist..follow the instructions...

[frank bullitt]

Well, he said he watched all kinds of videos! I understand, it is difficult to explain making flemish strings, in words!

So if anyone is in his area, or a club shoot near buy with traditional folks who can help out? Having hands on instructions is good!

I also understand about doing a bowyers loop on the lower end, but really, that's just shortcutting in my oppinion! Not a complete flemish string. And I think that's what Fishchic is trying to acheive. Sorry for the double post.

[fish n chicks]

Originally posted by AkDan:
find the video doing the twist..follow the instructions...

As Frank mentioned, I did say I "watched umpteen videos" but they leave out some steps that, imo, are pretty darn important. But thank you for your enlightening response!

[walkabout]

best results will probably be acheived by lots of practice. instead of throwing strings that are too short away hang onto them and untwist them and retwist till you get it right.practice makes perfect.

[ishi1archer]

I had the same problem when I made my jig. My strings were coming out about 4" short when finished. So I just set my jig for a 4" longer bow. I can make a flemish twist string in about 15 min. Just keep practicing and it will get easier. Try to find someone to show you how they do it.

Tooo many bows and counting!!!

[Jason Jelinek]

To get the second loop from untwisting the first loop I do this:
- After I get the first loop done I count the number of twists.
- I add that number of twists to the first loop but don't counter rotate the bundles.
- I then build the second loop and those extra twists I added to the first loop come out.
- I then twist the entire string to get the desired twists per inch I'm looking for and to adjust the length.

I learned this from Pip Bickerstaffe's Heritage of the Longbow.  A great bow for someone making all-wood laminated bows, making strings, footing arrows and looking for an interesting read.

Jason

[tim-flood]

you do NOT braid the main body of the string, normally.

Make one end then tie a piece of string around what  you just did and hang it on somethin and straighten the two pcs hanging down.  then start again from the other end.  you need about 12 twists in it to keep it from unravaling.  sounds like you are too short because you are trying to braid the whole string, not just the ends

[George Tsoukalas]

I agree with, Tim. Jawge

[Roy from Pa]

Flemish Strings are easy and fun to make. Just relax and you will be fine. Go to youtube.com and do a search on Flemish Strings. There are several videos there that will show you how. I wished we lived closer so I  could show you first hand.

 

[walkabout]

i think one of the things that i figured out too was that when i flipped it over to do the second end i was twisting the wrong way, so i started twisting it the exact same way as the first and it worked out. the length can be tough to figure out how much extra you need cus everyone twists diferently, i presonally twist them pretty tight so my first one ended up way short. i backed off some of the twist and it was ok. now i remember to give myself a lil extra and not to put so much torque on the twist. ill toss a short string together tomorow and post a few pics with some direction if it will help. thats a pretty good way of doing it jason, never heard of anyone doing it that way. ill have to look that title up and give it a read. it sounds really firmiliar

[walkabout]

thats exactly what i did to my first string,lol. i twisted the whole thing then had to untwist it so i tied it to a T chucked in a drill and backed it off a bunch.i spent the better part of 3 days after that twisting pieces of hemp to figure out how to get the right amount of twist and how to splice the ends back into the string in a way that didnt make me nervous