rock/chestnut oak

[walkabout]

while in pennsylvania over my vacation i found a nice tree/stave that my grandpa called rock oak, and after some research i found it is chestnut oak, a mamber of the white oak species. would this wood be good for bows? i know tim baker said in one of his articles on bow woods its one of the hardest woods to break, but will take alot of set. if its workable im going tobring it back with me on my next trip.

[JamesV]

In the south we have a similar oak called a swamp oak, with huge acorns. Don't know about bow building but the deer love them.

[mike mcguire]

no this is not bow wood,,,made up of mostlt earlywood,,

[red hill]

In HS agri we were taught that they were "swamp chestnut oaks".  Around here they were almost over-harvested to the point where there aren't many left in south Arkansas.  
You're right, JamesV. The acorns are huge and deer gobble'em up.
Stan

[RAU]

I dont want to go against mike mcguire cause I know he knows a heck of alot more than me and from what ive heard cuts,splits, dries, and sells more osage than anyone, but dont you think somebody like Tim baker or guys like him would love to try a stave of chestnut oak? Osage or yew Im sure its not, but lots of bows have been made of various oaks from both trees and boards

[walkabout]

this is where i read that white oaks are tough bow woods   http://www.briskybows.com/choosingwoods.htm  in it they state-"OAKS: California black .57; southern red .59; northern red, sessil, pin, bur .63; scarlet .67; white .68; Whiteoak is about as close to unbreakable as wood can be. In my bend tests it breaks after hickory. Bows Ive made of white oak took large sets without much excuse. On the other hand, I havent been able to break a bow made from this wood. One was steamed into 6 of reflex. When tillered it took 7 of set, standing at one inch of string follow at 55lb, and equaled the cast of any equal-follow bow. Of several whiteoak bows, from several different trees, the one that stayed straightest was fine-ringed, high-percentage early growth. Quite strange. One correspondent reported less set in his white oak bows, others report similar set. White oak is extremely strong in tension. Swamp white, Oregon white .72; Live .82. Semi-ring-porous. Our heaviest oak, and the only non-ring-porous oak. " the numbers are of course the specific gravity osage is stated as having a specific gravity of about 82.

[mike mcguire]

I will agree that some white oaks are very tough,,in my 20 years as a timber cutter,,I have seen small white oaks hold up a tree ten times its size,,chestnut oak on the other hand is much weaker,,it splits very easy,which means the longitutal grain is very important,give this wood any chance and it will split,,the reason most oak bows follow the string is as the wood flexes it crushes the cells and they graduly break down,,a good piece of white oak with healthy wood and thin early wood will make a fine bow,,but if given a choice I will walk by an oak tree to get to a hickory

[walkabout]

very good point. i can get more hickory from the same spot, was just curious as to whether the chestnut oak would work so i could try diferent woods. i too spent some time in the timber industry, my grandpa grew up as a cutter and he brought me into it when i was about 16, its one of those jobs that you have to be up for for sure. once got hit in the shoulder with a white oak that was about a foot and a half across rolling off a skid ramp, not fun at all.

[RAU]

Mike,
Does chestnut split like some of the red oaks? The ones ive been splitting for the stove really stink when green. Almost like vomit! They sure do split beautifull for the stove tho. I seriously think i could split some of that stuff w/ a sledge hammer no kidding. The stuff just wants to cleave apart. Ive only been burning wood for heat for 2 or 3 years tho. The reason I ask is this same wood i find so brittle and almost fun to split is the same stuff that lots of guys are turning into nice board bows, right? I just think if you asked this question on PA or paleoplanet those guys would have different answers for us too, (some of those guys could build a bow out of dead grass and hide glue tho) I dont know i just think if you have the stave there and nothing else to work on id give it a rip but as said above hickory is better and if theres a choice take that. I made one bow out of red oak and it is a true dog, slow, way under weight, lousy tiller etc. etc. but it sure is pretty wood when stained and sealed and it taught me a bunch. Its simple to work and straight as a pipe wich made layout real easy too. Just my 2 cents.
Don

[walkabout]

lol. ive made a ton of red oak board bows. its actually one of my favorite woods to work with because you have to get everything just about perfect for it to turn out right or itll blow. my last red oak bow is 60", 55#@27" and shoots pretty fast for being as crude a bow as i could build with the lumber. i think the stus dynamic spine calculator gave me an estimate somewhere in the 170's, although im guessing its about 150 or so.

[RAU]

mike,
also will you be at ETAR this year? I need some osage and I hear your the man to talk to.

Don

[mike mcguire]

no I wont be at etar,,I went for several years really a great shoot,, just a very long drive,,but I am planning to come next year,,

[mike mcguire]

fresh red oad does have a nice smell,,from the many thousands of trees I cut each species has its own smell,, if that red oak splits that well you should make a chair,,I am making some oldfashion chairs,,without the use of a saw,,all wood split and drawknifed,,and of course no nails or glue

[Loren Holland]

With all the talk about chestnut oak, i have one more question...what about the live oak that was in the same excerpt of the density list.  it was listed as .82, the heaviest, and only non-ring porous oak. I live in central Texas and live oak is everywhere.

[walkabout]

id say give it a try loren or at least test some out. if a test piece breaks before taking any set its tensiopn weak. if it takes alot of set before breaking its compression weak and tension strong. if it is tension strong you shouldnt have problems if you overbuild at first until you really get a feel for what the wood wants.