My first build, and need help now (PICS!!)

[Dublin Joe]

The tillering stick has grooves for the string to go into, keeping the bow drawn.  The tree usually has pulleys but can't hold the draw on its own.

The stick has its uses, especially allowing you to use the gizmo, take pics, and back off for a different viewpoint.  Holding the draw, though, isn't the best for the bow so many use only the tree.  If only for short periods the stick is OK, but I'd stop using it once I got into the last third or so of tillering.

The razor blade won't take off much wood at all, not nearly as much as 60 grit paper.  Vanillabear's not alone in using a screwdriver.  What I've read says to oil it (1 drop or so) and pull or push in one direction at about a 5 degree angle to draw the burr.  You don't want to push too hard, just enough to raise a burr you'll feel when drawing your finger across it.  Also, if you're pushing too hard any slip can mean a pretty good slice.

Keep asking questions, and reading, because I'm still new to bow making and most of my learning has come from reading other people's posts.

Joel

[John Scifres]

I'd use a rasp.  Scribe a line on the side of the limbs about 1/16" from the belly.  Rasp down to that.  Go slow and be careful.  Don't dish out any spot.  Slow, easy and consistent wood removal.

Don't use razor blades to scrape.  Find a thick knife and hold it at 90 degrees and pull thin curls off the belly.

[Jason/Woody]

Thanks guys.  My tiller tree that I made doesn't have pulleys.  I use a 50lb fish scale for the weight, and the holes on my tree are to accept a peg I turned on the lathe out of some Cumaru, a nice solid wood.  I can just pop it in and out for the next spot pretty easily.

I think I have some 80 grit paper in discs.  If not, then I have 100 grit that I might have to end up using.  I'll bust out one of my old buck knives to scrape with too.

I appreciate the help so far.

[Jason/Woody]

Oh, and John, really?  Do you think I need to take a full 1/16" off?  I was under the impression that the removal would be minimal since the initial tutorial stated 15/32"  I assumed that since the number was broken down into 32nds that it was only shaving small bits off afterwards.

[Jason/Woody]

Alright, I went down and had at it with some 80 grit sandpaper and a block of wood to help identify the high and low spots on the bow.  I also wrapped a string around the tips when pulled to 22" and pulled it tight.  The string crossed over at right about the 6" hole.

Anyhow, after the suggestions to get it to brace height before going to the short string, I decided to try and do that, but I'm not sure I went about it in the right way.

The string has stretched out a bit, being slack at ~13.5" so I worked it and got it pulled to 24".  It was 36.5# the first draw.  Then I used a mock gizmo and used the light behind the gap to judge the gaps.  I went through several sanding sessions and testing and now it goes an even 35#@24"

The limbs were pretty stiff at the fades compared to the rest, so that is where I removed a bulk of material.  It was there and where the limbs start to go into the reflex area.  I shouldn't have much movement past there, right?

Now, I checked the brace height again, and it is just below the 6" hole on my tree.  I take this to mean that with a short string, the brace would be about 4-1/4", right?

John had suggested to get it to 4" brace before going to short string, which I would be at.

What should I be doing here?  Should I just keep sanding to remove weight at the current draw length until the brace gets higher, or will that not happen?  I would think that by removing more material it would just lower the draw weight at the specified length, right?

I snapped a picture of it for reference.

Thanks for helping me get through this!

 

[Dublin Joe]

I'm glad to try to help and I know I can be a little wordy.  If I can raise a topic which others can clarify, reinforce, or correct, I'm getting the benefit too.

Anyway, I'm thinking you should be braced before you try to refine anything.  If your string is stretching, lowering your brace height, simply adjust by twisting or move the timber hitch a little.

If you tiller on the long string you have a greater chance of developing a hinge once you switch to the short string.  The geometry is different between the two.  The short string will exert force differently and what looked good can look not so good.

I would brace with short string, even at a lower than final height and use it for tillering, putting the long one away.

Removing wood will lessen the draw weight at that particular length, yes.

The brace height is not a constant.  It is whatever the short string makes it, and it changes with adjustments to the short string.

A fistmele is the traditional measure of what your brace height should be.  This is the distance from the belly of the bow to the string as measured by the "thumbs up" gesture.  It should allow your fletching to clear the bow while an arrow is nocked.  It can be increased or decreased to fine tune hand shock, wrist slap, etc.  A lower height allows more of the energy stored by the bow to be transferred to the arrow, rather than being locked in the flexed limbs.  Jawge said somewhere to make it as low as possible, so long as your fletching is clear of the bow and you're not getting slapped.  (Forgive me, Jawge, if I'm misrepresenting your advice.)

I see a Sureform and a rasp or two on your bench so you'll be fine.  It's looking good to me.

Oh, are your markings measured from the belly of the bow, or from the point where your grip sits on the tree?  I'm not sure whether it's supposed to be from the back or the belly but I know it's not supposed to be from the back of the grip.

[Dublin Joe]

I have one more thought...

Google Books lets you read parts of the Traditional Bowyer's Bibles, volumes 1-4.  I recommend these books, especially volume one on tillering.

Jawge is a member here and helps a lot of people.  His site is  http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/archer.html

[Jason/Woody]

Thanks.  I have heard of those books, but I can't find them in the library.  I might have to see if Barnes and Noble has them and maybe check them out.

The numbers are from the top of that front 2x4.  The reference I used stated that there should be a shelf 1.75" down from the top of the measurement point for some AMO standard or something.  That is what I did.  I cut a shelf for the riser to sit in, but the measurements are from the top.

I guess my main concern was breaking the bow when I put the short string on in case I did it too soon.  From the sounds of what some are saying, I should be able to brace it right now and go from there.

[Dublin Joe]

Imagine a bow with no riser braced at 0 inches; that's your zero mark and your numbers should increase from there.  Any riser thickness displaces your numbers downwards so many people use blue tape so their scale can be adjusted for each individual bow.  You could also hang a yardstick, tape it up, or whatever but I think your measurements are off by the thickness of your riser.