Author Topic: Well, how bad is it?  (Read 958 times)

Offline Jason/Woody

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Well, how bad is it?
« on: August 01, 2010, 04:07:00 PM »
Got down to 26" and the tiller was looking good.  As I was exercising it to 27", about the 10th draw I heard a pop.  Well, here is said pop.  Is there anything I can do to save this?  Backing? Or is it too late for that?  Please tell me there is something I can do to save this.

 

 


It is located JUST under the 2 clamp handles coming down from the top of the picture.

 

 


Here is how it looks from the other side.

 

Does anyone see anything that would have caused this, or is it just a fluke thing that happens sometimes?
Striving to be imperfect.  So far so good.

Offline walkabout

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Re: Well, how bad is it?
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2010, 04:48:00 PM »
im guessing that area was just a tad stiff and the grain lifted, it happens a bit with red oak. looks too far reaching across the limb to patch or fix though, a backing could have prevented it from spreading had one been glued on before tillering. you could try to patch it, but it might be unsafe and end up a very light bow in the end.
Richard

Offline Jason/Woody

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Re: Well, how bad is it?
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2010, 05:21:00 PM »
Could try to patch it?  Patch with what?  I was wondering if I tried to put some Minwax Wood Hardener on the spot would do anything at all.  I'm pretty confident that thin CA glue wouldn't do anything for that either, huh?
Striving to be imperfect.  So far so good.

Offline Rain Man

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Re: Well, how bad is it?
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2010, 05:39:00 PM »
Makes sense.  The majority of your bend is in the inner 1/3 of the limb, which is where it broke.   The bow needed to be bending more mid-limb and toward the tips.  That would have evened out the load over the whole limb instead of concentrating it in that one spot.  The crack looks pretty life-threatening to me... sorry.  I'd chalk it up as good practice and move on.  At least now you have pictures so you can compare and make changes on your next tiller.

Offline walkabout

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Re: Well, how bad is it?
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2010, 06:28:00 PM »
the cracks i have had i patched with superglue soaked into the area, probably 4 courses until i was sure the area was saturated and the crack was glued shut. then i wrap with anything from B50 to wool yarn, depending on the severity of the crack. for that crack i gotta say i wouldnt try to patch it, as rain man said it looks scary bad and could do some real damage if it blows. i started a collection of bows that"almost made it" which are bows that had failures of some sort, i finish them as i would if they had made shooters, then put them somewhere for posterity and as reminders of how sometimes things just dont work they way you want them too. also makes for great practice with diferent handle styles and finish techniques. last one that made it was my cousin sarahs bow, blew half a limb across the shop after some reduction during excercising the limbs, scary stuff.
Richard

Offline Jason/Woody

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Re: Well, how bad is it?
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2010, 07:49:00 PM »
Well, I think I'm  gonna try some water thin CA and wrap it in black B50.  Then I'll go ahead and finish it out and listen for any more cracking, all the while wearing my lathe face shield    :eek:
Striving to be imperfect.  So far so good.

Offline vanillabear?

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Re: Well, how bad is it?
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2010, 07:56:00 PM »

Offline walkabout

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Re: Well, how bad is it?
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2010, 10:26:00 PM »
another trick with filling/ gluing cracks i use is to put a block under the limb tip and clamp the bow handle down to my bench so the crack is fully closed up/compressed. mind you dont clamp it up too much, you dont want to reflex any limb after tillering stage or it can cause issues. as vanilla bear said too i soak any wrappings in superglue, being sure to overlap the cracks by 1/4" or so.
Richard

Offline Jason/Woody

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Re: Well, how bad is it?
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2010, 10:31:00 PM »
Perfect ideas guys.  I was going to do just that.  I was going to slightly reverse the clamping pressure so that it would close the crack and then saturate it with some water thin CA.  Now, when it comes to the soaking of the B-50, my stuff is waxed already.  Do you think it will still soak up the CA being waxed?  I was going to do ~2" total wrap on it, about 1" to each side.  Then I was just going to wrap the other side as well for symmetrical sake.  It might end up looking kind of funny because I already did a wrap near the reflexed tips for aesthetics too, but I'll take a little funky looking over starting over if I can manage to save it    :rolleyes:

Thanks for the input
Striving to be imperfect.  So far so good.

Offline vanillabear?

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Re: Well, how bad is it?
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2010, 11:02:00 PM »

Offline walkabout

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Re: Well, how bad is it?
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2010, 12:29:00 AM »
very good point vanillabear. some glue in the crack before closing it, and then quickly clamping downward would do the trick. id probably add enough glue that it would ooze out a little bit just to be sure. as for B50 soaking in superglue, i saw awhile back a very renowned bowyer doing a build and he used B50 that was soaked in superglue, worked just fine. cant remember the bowyers anme now though or how i found the build to begin with. anyway if you are worried about the B50 being waxed just run it through a rag until some of the wax is worn off. it might be a bit tedious but if it makes you feel more confident by all means do it.lol for future reference too, ive seen rawhide patches used over frets and checks, pieces are cut to size, then soaked to be pliable, then applied with either hide glue or one of the TB series glues, it is sanded slightly after its dry to thin it, then coated in superglue with some light sanding in between.
Richard

Offline Joey V.

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Re: Well, how bad is it?
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2010, 10:02:00 AM »
B-50 and Bow Tuff glass on the back fixed mine just like it.  I have shoot maybe 1000+ arrows thru so far so good......  I wrapped it in plastic wrap real tight and in the heat box with only 2 of the 4 bulbs so it didn't get too hot.  Then I let it go for a few days to cure full.

Opt 2:  Back with FIberglass cloth and epoxy.  This will have about the same effect if you don't want to bowtuff it.

Good Luck

Offline Joey V.

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Re: Well, how bad is it?
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2010, 10:08:00 AM »
OOOOPS correction I mean Smooth-On epoxy not B-50....  I need more coffee this am.....

Offline sulphur

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Re: Well, how bad is it?
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2010, 10:12:00 AM »
1. that area looks like a little crook in the grain. 2.  there was way too much bend in that area.  so the tiller was off.  thats a common mistake in first timers.  the two reasons separately are not too bad but together they made the limb pop.  My advice is too learn from the experience and start another.  You'll never trust that bow fully.
Rumblin, Stumblin, Bumblin

Offline Jason/Woody

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Re: Well, how bad is it?
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2010, 01:07:00 PM »
I was going to use some thick CA in the crack and clamp it down, then soak all the surrounding areas in thin CA and wrap, then soak again in thin.  If it doesn't work, oh well, chalk one up to experience, right?

Sulphur, the way I see it is this.  Even if it doesn't hold up well to full draw, I can at least use it for a 3/4 draw at 35ish pounds, right?  I mean, it is for bowfishing anyhow...
Striving to be imperfect.  So far so good.

Offline chrisg

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Re: Well, how bad is it?
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2010, 01:59:00 PM »
i had two red oak bows blow on me, there was no warning 'pop' the wood is rather temperamental. Backing such a large break would not help too much - it would be a broken bow with a large patch! just my 2c
chrisg

Offline sulphur

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Re: Well, how bad is it?
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2010, 02:14:00 PM »
Yeah but what happens when you get excited when you see that big fish?? are u really gonna remember to stop at 3/4 draw??  i will say i have had good luck with soaking a crack with thinned out epoxy and then using serving string soaking in the same thinned epoxy.  just use acetone to thin out some 2 ton epoxy.
Rumblin, Stumblin, Bumblin

Offline walkabout

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Re: Well, how bad is it?
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2010, 02:15:00 PM »
red oak is pretty good to start out with because in the right designs it works well, however when one begins to push the design limits  and try something diferent it calls for great patience and almost spot on tillering. ive built alot of board bows from 1x2"s, ranging in size and draw weight and i gotta say that im glad i had all that experience being careful before i moved onto good raw staves. ive read that much of the time a red oak board bow wont need a backing, however ive made it general practice to back every one i make, even if it is just brown paper. IMO it gives the bow a consistent surface to spread forces out across, rather than the frain of the wood which is sometimes violated in sawing.
Richard

Offline sulphur

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Re: Well, how bad is it?
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2010, 02:17:00 PM »
of course those where small splinters and not big cracks.  i still say make another.  looks like your building skills are good enough to pop one out in no time.
Rumblin, Stumblin, Bumblin

Offline Dublin Joe

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Re: Well, how bad is it?
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2010, 10:34:00 PM »
"The best way to go at making your first bow is without hope, but with persistence." - Jim Hamm, quoting Stewart White.

I'm with walkabout in that I'd glue it then back it.  One trick for gluing is to get the glue in there as far as you can by blowing it with compressed air, then repeat, then clamp.  This is how chairs are repaired all the time.  You want all the wood inside to get a coating because glue-to-glue is way better than glue-to-wood.  Also, use some wax paper or the squeezeout will join your clamp to the bow.

Since bow making is an addiction, you'll probably be looking through those 1x2's on a fairly regular basis.  I'd set this one aside and start a new one, getting to the short string ASAP and tillering so the entire limb is working.
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