Author Topic: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer  (Read 1036 times)

Offline ron w

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Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2010, 07:17:00 PM »
All I can say is WOW......you are an Artist with Osage Pat!   :notworthy:    :notworthy:
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's there are few...So the most difficult thing is always to keep your beginner's mind...This is also the real secret of the arts: always be a beginner.  Shunryu Suzuki

Online Pat B

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Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2010, 11:09:00 PM »
Ron, we'll see after 100 shots! d;^)
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Offline snag

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Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
« Reply #42 on: December 19, 2010, 12:51:00 PM »
Pat are you going to straighten the limbs anymore to get the string to be centered over the handle...or not?
Isaiah 49:2...he made me a polished arrow and concealed me in his quiver.

Online Pat B

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Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
« Reply #43 on: December 19, 2010, 01:45:00 PM »
Snag, The string does cross the handle and that's what matters. The dog leg will remain. I'm all done with heating unless I need a final tweak. I'm in the process of adding tip overlays then I will shape the tips and work on the handle. Once I have them done I will complete the tiller and get around to dressing her up for Christmas (snake skins)...although she won't be to her destination by Christmas she will hopefully be there a few days after.
  The pics below are of where she was after tempering the belly and adding reflex with the final heating. You can see the coloration from the heating on the belly after sanding it. Both limbs were tempered...
 
 
 
  Normally I leave the tips and handle area untouched until after full draw tiller but due to the limited time restraints I'm doing what I can while other things are curing, drying or whatever.
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Offline DanaM

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Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2010, 05:21:00 PM »
Looks real good Pat
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Online Pat B

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Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
« Reply #45 on: December 19, 2010, 06:02:00 PM »
FRET!!!   d:^(
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Online KellyG

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Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
« Reply #46 on: December 19, 2010, 06:31:00 PM »
Can you fix it or is it too bad.

Offline broketooth

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Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
« Reply #47 on: December 19, 2010, 07:14:00 PM »
mr pat can you show us what the fret looks like and how to fix it
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Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
« Reply #48 on: December 19, 2010, 07:59:00 PM »
The fret is right in the crook. I heated the area and added super glue but a better patch will be necessaey if she is to survive. While waiting for her to rehydrate after heat treating, today I added tip overlays and shaped the tips and added leather on the back of the handle and shaped it and the handle and I did most of the final sanding when I found the fret. Glad I found it now and not the recipient finding it the hard way later.
  Ruddy, I took a pic of the fret after I super glued it so it doesn't  show up well and I'm up for suggestions from the peanut gallery as how to, if possible, fix it!
Here is how she looks and a pic of the fret area.
 
 
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Offline broketooth

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Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
« Reply #49 on: December 19, 2010, 08:08:00 PM »
im assuming that the fret is on the belly side, is it pissible to slice into it remove some wood from undernieth the fret and repatch i also realize that because of the crook this is a stiff area in the limb. or remove the fret pack it full of glue and osage dust and then do a sinew wrap on the affected area
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Offline broketooth

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Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
« Reply #50 on: December 19, 2010, 08:09:00 PM »
i meant possible lol sorry about my poor spelling, its not one of my strong points
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Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
« Reply #51 on: December 19, 2010, 10:16:00 PM »
Ruddy, I think this one is pissible! d;^)  Yes the fret is on the belly. It is a compression fracture; the wood bends more where the fret is than the surrounding area and causes the grain to break under compression. The only way to relieve the fretted area is to thin the wood on either side.
  I have seen where the fretted wood was removed and another piece of similar wood glued in and I have seen rawhide and sinew patches. I'm just not sure how any will work with the fret right in that kink in the limb.
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Offline Walt Francis

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Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
« Reply #52 on: December 19, 2010, 10:35:00 PM »
Pat,  A fret is tough to swallow after so much work, want to guess how I know.  
On several occasions, when the fret was caught early enough in the tillering process, I was able to scrape away the fret and then weaken both side of the limb.  The fret area became 1-2 inch non-working part of the limb.  On a couple of other bows when I wouldn’t make weight with the first fix or it wouldn’t work,  I cut out the fret area and replaced it with a patch/plug.  I read about the patch/plug technique on the other site, before this one existed, and then a couple of years later Dean Torges wrote an article on the process in either TBM or Primitive Archer.  I had mixed results with the patch/plug method, with a 50/50 success rate before Dean’s article.  After reading Deans article and following his method I was successful on two of three repairs.  The patches/plugs are not aesthetically pleasing, so when I became proficient at the fish tail splice and making takedowns I quit using this method.  Now I cut the bad limb off, throw it in the scrap pile, and set the good limb in a bucket until several discarded limbs become available from other attempts, and then either splice together the good limbs or make takedown bows.  The final product looks and performs much better.

The other thing that might work to save this bow, if the first technique described above is not viable, is to add sinew or another type of backing that works (Hickory, Boo, ect…).  This moves the neutral area to the back of the bow, or father from the belly, and might allow you to use the first technique described above.  This has successfully worked for me twice, both times with sinew.
The broadhead used, regardless of how sharp, is nowhere as important as being able to place it in the correct spot.

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Offline Walt Francis

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Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
« Reply #53 on: December 19, 2010, 10:48:00 PM »
Just throwing out ideas:
 
Won’t work on this bow because it is so snaky, but on a straight bow, you might be able to back it with boo and place the node over the fret?  The node might create a stiff spot that would stop the fret from bending/working and allow you to remove it.
The broadhead used, regardless of how sharp, is nowhere as important as being able to place it in the correct spot.

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Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
« Reply #54 on: December 19, 2010, 10:50:00 PM »
Thanks Walt. If you build enough wood bows you see plenty of these maladies and eventually learn to live with them.  It is all part of making wood bows...as you very well know!
  I will do my best to repair this bow as it is but if all else fails I'll take your suggestion and start a "takedown" bucket. I already have a "corner of shame" and have made a few pretty good bows from ones that were banished there.
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Offline Art B

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Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
« Reply #55 on: December 20, 2010, 08:26:00 AM »
Pat, those frets are pretty easy to repair using the dish method. And is the easiest and simplest way for most belly repairs IMO. Makes for a strong, yet fairly decent looking repair job. Had some pics of the process I use but evidently lost 'em somehow.


What you want to do is rasp down (dish like) the area to be repaired and prepare for a flexible patch replacement. Say, you remove 2/32" wood you will need to replace with 3/32" flexible patch for example. That will give you enough excess wood to clean things up with. Urac should be used instead of the Tite-bond glue for maximum strength.

The trick here is to use a flexible enough piece of wood that will conform to the dished out area. Obviously, the deeper the fret goes the longer the patch must be for flexiblity. Good luck........Art

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Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
« Reply #56 on: December 20, 2010, 09:03:00 AM »
Art, Do you think even in the crook with the leverage from the offset limb tip it is an option?   If so, how big of a dished area should I make. I remember reading Dean Torges'ethod where he used a 3" sanding drum to remove the fret and replaced it with a piece of wood that ma=tched the diameter of the drum. Is that what you are talking about?
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!
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Offline Art B

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Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
« Reply #57 on: December 20, 2010, 02:11:00 PM »
I don't have any doubt that it'll work Pat. Those doglegs are always a problem for me. I just leave that area alone and do my straightening on either side of the dogleg anymore.


With that slightly radiused belly profile what you're looing for is something similar to a football patch once finished. I would start out by placing some masking tape (around the limb) about 1 1/2" on either side (total of 3" in length) of the fret and dish out about 1/32" deep. If the fret is still there then go on down. But the deeper you go you'll probably have to move the masking tape further apart creating a longer patch.

You can make these patches as small/large as you like but the repair slat you're going to be using must be fexible enough to conform the the dished out area. I've used as many as three thin slats sometimes to achieve this. I use a slightly round sanding block to clean-up/sand the dished-out area.

Will keep looking for some pics.........Art

Offline broketooth

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Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2010, 02:27:00 PM »
that would be an interesting tuturial art. i would be interestied in seeing that done. ruddy
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Re: Christmas Exchange Bow fro Primitive Archer
« Reply #59 on: December 20, 2010, 04:28:00 PM »
Art, I've seen one or two of those patches on bows you made. I don't remember which ones though.   Are you using a wood rasp or power tool to "dish" out the fret? And how thin should the patch pieces be, 1/16", more, less? I have Urac in my basement frig!
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!
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