Broadhead choice, dead is dead.

[VTer]

First let me say I respect Dr Ashby's use of science in determining the best all around broadhead design. Now I see that manufacturers are trying to copy and/or improve the Grizzly and the hordes are flocking to buy them. I understand the science says the design gives you the best chance at making meat, so why are we not using rifles and compounds. I will stick with the broadheads I'm using now, because I like the way they sharpen. I think that's the bottom line.

[Jon Stewart]

IMHO the best head is the Zwickey two blade.  Easy to sharpen and they will do the job.  Been using it for many years.

[Jerry Jeffer]

OK

[owlbait]

Broadheads are like girlfriends. You might like the one you have but it doesn't hurt to try a new one once in awhile. You just might end up liking your new choice better! Still, dead is dead.

[wingnut]

Your right that there are a bunch of good broadheads out there.  It's also good to check that the one your using is at least in the good category.  There are a bunch of BH designed for wheel bows that really suck with trad equipment.

Mike

[Dave Lay]

I agree, and will stick with my Zwickey deltas but, the work Ashby has done is good work, and reinforces what most of us here already know. And for some one huntin thick skinned heavy boned animals his stuff should be really looked at and taken to heart. For us guys huntin deer and maybe a bear now and then, it is more of a guide, ie: I shoot a 60lb bow 600 gr arrows and cut on contact 2 blade. and have never had a arrow or head fail, and get pass throughs 90% of the time unless a offside shoulder is hit. But I KNOW my set up is not anywhere near what one would need on african big game.

[brettlandon]

I personally shoot Grizzly 190's or trade points, but I think far less has been proven to be effective.  I definately agree, dead is dead.

-Brett

[nd chickenman]

keep em sharp, shoot straight the deer will be dead, zwickeys do it for me and I am not going to switch because someone told me to.

[T-Mac]

I agree and think David has said it best for me. I'll shoot what is a good bh because I hunt mostly deer and hope to do bear or elk someday. If I was going to Africa for big game I would really try to use more of the imformation Dr. Ashby has provided. It is great reading and great work and I think he has done a wonderfull job. Agree also with chickenman, keep em sharp and shoot straight, dead is dead.

[last arrow]

When I started hunting in the early 70's, an old timer that had been bow hunting since the 40's showed me a simple method of sharpening  2 blade heads with a file that, for a right handed person and after several sharpenings,esentially produced a left bevel broadhead that was very sharp. He insisted that I use left wing feathers with this method.  If you were left handed results would be just the oppisite and produce a right bevel and need for right wing fletch.

We used this method on heads with bleeders also. He used the old style Bear heads exclusively.  I have used Bear heads and then switched to zwickeys after Bear changed to the aluminum feral.  I think next time I need new heads I will buy the Zwicky's with the left bevel just to save some work on the first sharpening.  I have also used grizzleys with right wing feathers and found them to be excellent heads.

Maybe single bevel head producing better penetration is not as new of an idea as we think.  People throughout history have figured out intuitively some pretty amazing things. Now we have research to back it up.

[Bill Carlsen]

Actually, nothing about Ashby's conclusions are scientific since the  events cannot be duplicated in a controlled setting.  All his conclusions are based on his observations and personal experience and are, therefore, anecdotal.  He is really no different than most of us except that he hunts a lot more, it seems. There are really only two things that seem to be important in bowhunting most of North American big game, straight shooting arrows with sharp bhs. There have been way more big animals taken over the years with "regular" bows and "regular" arrows than Ashby has taken with all of his equipment. I am not saying his conclusions are of no value or of little validity and they are certainly worth discussing. They are not, however, scientific and the application of his conclusions are probably of little consequence for most of us that can get our arrows to shoot/tune perfectly and are able to get our bhs really sharp.

[Orion]

Folks sure do get their noses out of joint when someone puts some information out that might challenge their beliefs.  No one ever said that double bevels didn't work, and no one ever said you "have to use" single bevels.  Time to quit beating the dead horse.

[Bonebuster]

Personally, I like two edge heads, especially a big Zwickey, because of how easy they are to sharpen. I could probably sharpen them on a flat rock.

I have a ten yr old who will be bow hunting for the first time this year. I must say, that with all the hubbub about single bevel aiding penetration, I`m sure the new single bevel "No Mercy" will be on the end of his arrows. They certainly can`t hurt.

I agree with the "dead horse" thing, but I can`t help it. Talk of broadheads will always get me to flush.

[sswv]

I shoot 46# bows and use 125 grain Snuffer heads. until a dead deer tells me they'd rather have been shot with something else I'll keep on useing that set-up.

as far as all these 'scientific reports' are concerned "just because something is written down somewhere don't mean it's always true".

shoot what you're confident with and SHOOT IT WELL.  

[scot]

I don't understand why one would not want to use a lager 3 or 4 blade head on light game like deer. I get pass throughs using sharp 3 blades and a 550gr. arrow. i'm considering going in the oppisite direction. A larger head like the muzzy phantom and maybe a slightly lighter arrow.

[Whitetail Chaser]

I have not yet been convinced to change from my old, reliable double-bevel Zwickeys.  They have been very effective (even on large game) for decades.  

With a normal 6 pack of Eskimos running about 20 bucks, that is a steal in my book.  If taken care of, those 6 Eskimos could kill tons of critters.

Brett

[owlbait]

Broadhead choice. We know that big sharp multiblade broadheads kill deer. No question there. It doesn't work for everyone and their own set-up however. So what are some options if you want to increase your efficiency/success rate? Ashby has reported some things that he has tested and reported that you may consider. Some argue it is not scientific. I say it's not perfect science but it is science. He has made observations on arrow lethality, asked questions, tested those questions and reported his results. He has even attempted to test each variable that he has encountered and tested those specific variables. Is his methods and mediums perfect? No, but his published results are much more than anecdotal. Each person then has to decide if that information may be helpful to them. As far as new broadheads and prices, looks to me like a lot of us have more than one economical traditional bow. Cheap bows kill deer as well as expensive ones. And still dead is dead.

[Bill Carlsen]

Just so there is no misunderstanding. Ashby's observations and recommendations seem to me to have more validity and I would certainly follow his advise if I were going to be hunting dangerous big game like buffs in Oz or Africa. However, a lot, actually, most of what he says, while making perfect sense is "overkill" (pun intended) for the majority of us who are hunting medium to small size big game like deer and bear. I think there is a point of diminishing returns on arrow weight and high FOC. I have found that a high FOC seems to have afforded me better penetration but to go beyond the 200-225 grains I use up front right now causes me tuning problems that I am not willing to invest money in (meaning I would have to buy new shafts and they ain't cheap) in order to make gains that I  am not convinced are necessary. As for the single bevel bh.....I believe it is a niche market and I find them extremely hard to get shaving sharp. Putting a 600# moose down in 20 yards with a scary sharp Razorcap told me all I need to know about what an adequate set up for me is.

[DaleinOhio]

Striving to make our chosen equipment (in our case, it happens to be traditional archery gear) as deadly and efficient as possible is our responsibility.  

I haven't used Dr. Ashby's techniques but plan to give them a try.  I like his idea that his techniques really shine on the marginal hits, especially where bone is encountered.  And I know that not one person on this website can claim to have always made perfect hits on game.

I look at his work like this:  automobile manufacturers have a research and development department that strives to make trucks better.  But at the end of the day a truck still has four wheels, a bed, a cab, an engine, etc.  I consider Dr. Ashby the research and development department for trad archery.  Do his findings mean that the way we have always done it don't work or are somehow lesser?  Not a bit.  He is just sharing his findings and showing us ANOTHER WAY to do things.  Take them or leave them.  It's your choice.  But they still involve a trad bow, arrow and broadhead.  I just don't understand why some people get all worked up about his proposals, as if they are an affront to the traditional ways we are used to.

One more thing...how did the single bevel broadhead get a reputation as hard to sharpen?  I have a number of knives with a single bevel edge (Emerson, CRKT, etc. with a tanto style blade) and they are the absolute easiest knives I own to sharpen to a scary edge.  Simply work them on a file or stone at the right angle, then flip them over and knock off the wire edge on a strop.  Done.  No counting strokes per side, no switching from side to side and having to reset the angle.  I did the same to a Zwickey I had lying around and found it a piece of cake to turn into a single bevel that is razor sharp.  Just my two cents on all this.

[brettlandon]

Dale, It's not the single bevel on the broadhead that's hard to sharpen, it's specifically the Grizzly brand single bevel broadhead.  They are very hard steel.

-Brett