Osage first try (ding ding)

[broketooth]

kelly , i think you are doin great. with all the soldiering and bow building you are doin you got your plate full for sure. if you're frustrated just walk away, the stave will be there tomorow. the tools i told you about are on thier way. im more than sure you will get good use outa them. keep us posted . and above all be safe and get home. ruddy

[KellyG]

Thanks Ber643 and Ruddy,
I will be back at her tonight, will try to get pics up of my tree once it is done. The try and get her layed out. I got my center line I will post pics of that proccess also I hope.
Kelly

[KellyG]

Today I marked my center with the modified gizmo. Ran into two snags.
1 the modified gizmo  is too long in one section to follow the contour of the limb. I have a shorter one in my office so tomorrow  I will use it on the wavier limb.
2 a knot on the edge of the limb . Should I just leave it full with there? must admit I am scratching my head on this one. Is before mid limb. each
Each limb is 32.5" long from the handle I have not marked fades yet. I am shoot for 69" ttt and 68 ntn and was planning on going 1.25" from the handle to about 18" then straight taper to .5". This knot is only about 12.75" out to the center of the knot. The limb is 1.5" wide. I guess I just leave it that wide there and 1.25" before and after.
Here is the knot in question. I know the line not centered this is also one of the areas my gizmo was too long for. The yellow lines it how I think I should handle this. Am I right?
 
Here is better look of the area where you can see the curve in the wood my gizmo jumps over.
 
Now top and side view of a modified gizmo. ( I would prefer on that had wooden pegs verses nails) Heck you could even put nuts in it where the nail holes area and screw in two pencils when getting the center line. Then just unscrew them and use for tillering. Why didn't I think of that sooner.
Top
 
Side
 
Well your input is need on that screwy knot.
Thanks,
Kelly

[SEMO_HUNTER]

Kelly, I think your going to have to leave that knot in there. It's too close to the edge to try and get the width you need for the limb if you take it out, and the way the grain waves around the knot goes too far into the center of the limb. I'm afraid that if you tried to take it out the limb would split when you try to tiller it?
I made this mistake once already by cutting straight through the middle of a knot just like that one. Everything seemed fine until after about the 200th shot and a fret began to pull up right at the edge of the knot I cut through. That was my very first self bow and I didn't know any better. I was heartbroke to say the least.

Don't do anything more with it until we get some other guys to jump in here and offer their advice.
But that's just my opinon, there may be others to consider.

[John Scifres]

Get rid of the knot if you can.  What weight are you looking for?  My rule of thumb is up to 60# for a 1-1/4" width and good osage.

I think your yellow marks are correct around the knot on the edge but I don't see that much grain on the other side of the limb.  Most small knots don't "push" the grain enough to have a bulge on both sides.

[SEMO_HUNTER]

I just read your post again and was looking at the pics some more. Your yellow lines appear to be about right for going around the knot?
Just follow those tiny little lines as they "Flow" around the knot and do your best NOT to cut through any. Follow them gently around the knot as if it were water flowing around a rock in a stream. Some guys like those in a longbow because they add character. No 2 are exactly alike and each one is unique to itself. That's the beauty of a self bow. Just take your time and follow the little river that flows the length of the stave. Tapering as you go and try to follow the little lines in the grain as much as possible. I would use my rasp for this and not a knife or draw knife.

Again......just my opinion and I'm sure there are others.

[KellyG]

John I am looking for well under 60# just trying for 45#. I think that if I tried to go to the inside I would only have .75" there, going around just makes more since. If I had another .25" I think I would be ok going to the inside.
Semo_hunter,

thanks I will us my file once I get  to that spot. I will only be trying to smooth it out if I have reasoned corretly on this.
Thanks both of you for your quick responce.
Kelly

[Pat B]

Kelly, are you using the centering tool canted left and canted right. In some spots it will leave two pencil lines. I just split the difference between them.

[broketooth]

way to improvise adapt and overcome on the center line jig. only a sodier would have thought of that. props to ya kelly you're lookin like you are learnin from whats beig posted here. way to go. ive been watchin you. do ya feel like r. lee ermy is givin you the drill seargent speach yet. you are doin well for what you have. keep up the good work. oooorah. ruddy

[KellyG]

Pat,
 I did run it back and forth over the bow and got the same result I just think it is to long to redgiester it unit the pencil has passed.

Thanks Ruddy,
Either you did time in the Corps or been hanging around Bernie a lot. Once a Marine always a marine right Bernie. Thanks for the complements and support Ruddy.
Kelly

[KellyG]

Ok tonight I laid it out. I have for now it will be 59" long, 4" handle, 1.25" from the fades to 18" then straight taper to 1/2" tips.
I have a few pic to share of course, but first let me explain how I did the actual drawing of the lay out. After I went over center with a much smaller gizmo, I then grabbed a measuring tape (insure it is flexible, stiff ones sit off the bow; and will be a problem). I put a pencil mark on the 2", 2 5/8" and 3 1/4" marks. I use the 2" because it give a little to hold over the side and the metal ends are hard to keep in place (you will see it in  minute. I stared at the 18" mark and move back every 1" or so marking the width. I kept the 2 5/8" make on my center line and marked the wood at the 2" and 3 1/4" to give me the 1 1/4" limbs.
See like this, just keep moving towards the handle.
 
Then marked the tips 1/4 on each side of center. while there I put my tape on the 18" mark and the tip mark and wrapped the excess over the end to hold it in place. I made sure my tape was on both marks and started at the 18" mark holding the tape with my index, middle and ring finger, marked the taper by drawing a line using the tape as my guide. you have to take it slow and walk you finger down the tape, only mark in front of your 3 finger hold the tape down or it will push in our curl up. It will make for a curved or wavy line, don't ask me how I know. Also keep tension on the tape without drawing hand while walking you 3 finger to the next spot. All of this is harder to explain than it is to do.
Both of these pictures show me lining it up and wrapping the tape over the end to hold with my leg.
 
 
Better view of the end
 
Now me holding tension with my drawing hand, cant show my 3 fingers walking because they are holding the camera silly.
 
will notice in that pic the dots that make the width of the bow. they go from the 18" mark to the handle. I just put the tape on two and draw the line and moved to the next two all the way to the handle. If the wood is curvy keep your dots close if it is straighter open them up. Not so much you can't us one hand to keep tension enough to draw your line. You can see one line done in that pic. Go to the other end and repeat.
Hope this made since. This is how I did it and until the ones who have done it a bunch tell me a better way it is how I will do it again. I hope they don't tell me it is all wrong and I have to do it over, but until I get a thumbs up I ain't taking any wood off.
Oh almost forgot the knots yes more than one now.
This is the one that I was asking about you see my intended solution of just making the limb wider. If I just cut it out I would be down to 1" there and no character. So it stays.
 
Here my line cut right thru the center, so more flare on this limb. Again around it. I will dig this one out a little the wood is very soft in this one.
 
Ok that is enough, If I forgot something let me know if I need to add a pic of something let me know. I did not do a whole layout because my lines are to light to show up except the center one.
Thanks,
Kelly

[broketooth]

kelly, in the last pic you showed on your last post. only leave the extra wood on the knot side. do not leave extra wood on the side with no knot. you will have tillering problems later due to to much wood in that area. ruddy

[hova]

looks like you got her figured out kel.


nice legs too!!!

           :eek:    :eek:    :eek:

[SEMO_HUNTER]

I was wondering how many posts it would take for someone to mention the legs.
Exactly....1.....before Hova jumped on it.    

Looks good to me Kelly.
The stave that is.....not the legs.    

Ruddy is right about leaving too much wood around the knot. No need to go way around, just leave enough that it can't start a spinter peeling into the knot area. That's how most wood self bows bite the dust, it all starts and ends with a knot.

Follow the grain around the knot and leave a good 1/4" or so on each side if you can and I think they may be ok. There will be a stiff spot there anyway because knots don't bend, there's no getting around that. Your doing it right by tracing a line around the knot while following the grain, then work it don't easy to your pencil marks so you know where to stop.

[J. Holden]

Oooh Boy!  Looks like you're getting closer.  Keep up the post Sarge.  Soon, very soon.

-Jeremy  

[Roy from Pa]

Kelly, please warn us before ya post porn pictures of them sexy legs:) LMAO Looks like your getten er done dude.. ^5 Roy

[KellyG]

Thanks for all the kind words about the stave and my legs. Roy I will try to clean up my PICs for now on. I was just focused on the task at hand. I will try to ensure there is less leg in the next pics. I am surprised that all that white did not wash out the PIC.
Well I guess it is time to make it look more like a bow and get the sides down a little. will get some pic up of my progress late if my connection is not flaking out.
Thanks for looking, God Bless, and Happy building,
Kelly

[ber643]

That was the first thing I saw too, - not needing the bulge on the off side of the knot, when it is so far out of the center  (not the legs - I'd just hang a old towel over them next time, or take the socks off - ya can't have it both ways. Socks left on in porn went out back in the 40s/50s - LOL)

Oh yeh, I think Ruddy has just been living here in "Marine Country" for about 20 years a'ready and been well exposed - LOL

[yukon chuck]

Thank you for taking the time to post this. I know it is terribly time intensive to document your work as you go along. This is the stuff that makes this site great. Very interesting and very detailed. Thanks.
Oh yeah...nice legs,

[KellyG]

Thanks bernie I left the bulge off as you well see in a minute.
Yukon I am trying dont take my attempts as harden fact either. I have never done any of this. I am just trying to make it so all of my question, problems and solution are here for other newbies like me.

Now on with the show.

Ok today I took wood off the sides and got crooked stick. I still have to take some wood off but need some answers to some important questions first.
1) The knotty end tapers from 7/8" belly  to my 1 1/4". I have 7/8" thickness from the belly to back on the limbs so I still have wood. the question here is doe I reduce the thickness more and make my limbs as wide as the belly? Or stop here and reprofile the back down to 1"? which seems narrow. Or is a reverse trap ok with Osage?
2) We will see the twist and bends here in a bit with the pics I have posted. To heat and get it somewhat straight I will think I will use a piece of 4x4 and us metal bands like pat did but without the clamps. Screw a rounded block of wood at a bend heat and bend as straight as I can, and 550 cord  and lash it down.  
The twist I think will be easier, sandwich it between 2x4s. one set at the tip and the other about the beginning of the twist heat and untwist.
Any brain storming is good.  I make you really appreciate our ancestors and how they did it with stones and no vice.

Well let's take a look shall we. Oh tools used here drawknife, file and toothbrush (to clean teeth with, of the file that is). Draw knife was used to get to about 1/8" to my lines then file down.
Here is the knotty end
 
closer view of its tip area
 
The more troublesome knot, with wood removed from it.
 
this shows how the knot is over hanging a little
 
and the other knot I just show how I just went straight instead of leave wood on the none knot side; like I had drawn. See I do listen. I even did it to both knots.
 
Now for the twisted end
 
twisted end this one is really trapped the narrow (the narrow side is the back, wide the belly)
 
my thickness at this point on both ends
 


more to come in a sec so hold on for commits I have a few more Pics