Author Topic: Dick's Bow Swap Build  (Read 933 times)

Offline Dick in Seattle

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Dick's Bow Swap Build
« on: January 14, 2011, 03:02:00 AM »
Stage 1a - Building a Machine to Use to Build the Bow

Belt Sander Conversion - Standard Horizontal Belt/Disk to Vertical Edge Sander

A couple of years ago, I saw web article on converting an old horizontal belt sander to a vertical edge sander. I was intrigued with the possibilities, but I had just equipped my shop, including a 6x80 vertical edge sander and 6x48 belt/disk sander, so I hardly needed another. Since then, I have found that I do just about all the sanding involved in forming a bow from a blank with the big vertical edge sander. The 6x48 got used on one riser right after I got it, then just became a tool that was in the way and ended up stored on a shelf. However, the project continued to pop into my mind every now and then. With more experience behind me, I could readily see where I could do most of what I do on a machine this size, if it had the power to stand up to a lot of fiberglass grinding.

Recently, I've been doing a lot of communicating with beginner bow makers who are wondering about what tools to get. Many folks don't have the space or budget for a tool like the big longbelt sander. The 6x48 was still there and I was between projects, so I decided to go ahead with the project and document it, hoping that it might prove to be a help to someone.

As this project got underway, I entered the Trad Gang annual bow swap, so it was natural to decide that once the machine is done, I would use it, rather than my big sander, to build the bow for the swap. Thus, this becomes the first step in building my swap bow. I hope to have this finished and start the bow this weekend. Since there are some relatively beginning bow makers involved in the swap, I figured showing the possibilities in this machine conversion was a legitimate inclusion.

First, a word about the machine. It's a Grizzly 1014Z 6x48 with a 9" disk. It's a big powerful machine with a 3/4 hp motor, weighing over 100 pounds. It currently lists for $345, not cheap, but half the price of the 6x80 and it takes up a lot less room. It's also far easier to find a wide variety of belt grits locally. I have to mail order the big belts.

You can often find used 6x48's on auction or used tool lists, and this would be my recommendation for how to get a machine for this project.

I considered doing the project with a smaller 4x36 or even 4x24 machine. These are far cheaper and lighter and would be less of a challenge to mount. However, they all come with 1/3 hp motors and given my experience grinding a lot of bows, I just don't think they'd stand up to the work for a long time.  They might be OK if you took your time and let them work at their own pace and didn't plan on a lot of bowmaking.

I should note here that I don't like disk sanders. I've used belt sanders extensively for many years, but found little use for the disks. Consequently, I'm not real competent with them, which may be why I don't like them. I do have a stand alone disk sander, but all I consider it good for is eating more wood than I want it to faster than I want it to. Others will feel differently. You can see that I don't consider sacrificing the disk in this project to be a problem, especially considering the usefulness of a vertical edge to a bowyer. I don't use a shaped limb template or cut out on a bandsaw. I draft the bow directly onto the blank and grind it out with the belt sander. When I get to the point of grinding limb shape on the swap bow, I hope to show this machine in action.

Today's work consisted of yarding the machine out from the shelf it was on and getting the disk off. Yikes! That was a bear of a project.  Here is a report on the day's work that I sent to some friends:
 
 
"Why in the h--- didn't one of you guys stop me?!!!! 
I'm a woodworker, not a mechanic. I barely know the difference between an Allen wrench and a Whitworth. I don't read blueprints or exploded drawings. Usually though, one way and another, I figure it all out. This one is the worst!


Things I've learned so far:

- Anything made of cast iron with a 3/4 hp motor is going to weigh over 100 pounds

- 100 pounds is very heavy and difficult to turn around, turn over, prop on end, etc.

- 100 pounds hurts when you set it on your fingers

- any nut tightened onto a 100 pound object will be tightened with a force greater than 100 pounds, causing you to tip said object over when trying to leverage said nut

- All equipment assembled at the factory will involve special know how and special tools, neither of which will be available to you at the time you try to disassemble it.

NOTE: The special know how probably does not weigh 100 pounds. I cannot speak for the special tools since I don't have them.

- All equipment manufactured in China will list fastenings (nuts, bolts, Allen's, etc.) in US SAE standard measurements. However, they are actually metric, just labeled with the nearest SAE measurement that will fit. Use your metric tools.

- All guards and covers installed at the factory will be impossible to remove without destruction.

- Belt sanders are good tools. Disk sanders are are totally useless tools attached to belt sanders as an advertising gimmick. They actually interfere with the operation of the belt sander.

- Any engineer who deliberately combines a belt sander with a disk sander should have all of his joints adjusted with metric tools.

- With faith, perserverence, pluck and the American way of life, (and a Boy Scout manual) Jack Armstrong can rebuild what's left of a belt sander.


Tune in for the next adventure, wherein Jack attempts to mount a 100 pound machine sideways by bracing it with balsa parts from model airplane kits.... (Jack has a lot of model airplane kits.....)"
 
 
At least I still have a sense of humor! Actually, I did get the thing apart and the part I wanted to save back together and I'm looking forward to tomorrow and building a mounting frame.

Here are pix of today's work:

 

         

This pic and the next are the machine before I started destructi... oops, I mean disassembly..

 
            

The project really was to get the disk parts off. The table came off easily, but the disk was over an hour of frustrated fiddling around. The safety cover wasn't meant to be removed until the disk was removed. The disk was held on with an Allen screw in the axle, behind the disk! You were supposed to have a special extra long Allen wrench to reach it.

 
         

This is some time later... In my efforts to get the cover and disk off, I ended up majorly dismantling the machine. After many unsuccessful attempts with various tools and a flashlight, I finally managed to get an Allen wrench in behind the disk, find the Allen screw by feel and got the axle locking screw out, but the disk still wouldn't budge. I ended up drilling two 3/8" holes in the back of the cover, inserting a large Phillips head screwdriver though each hole alternately and whapping the heck out of it with the little jeweler's hammer you see at the upper left of the table.

 
            

Here's what I ended up with. The belt roller at the left fell off onto the floor a bit earlier, giving me heart failure till I figured out that it wasn't really fastened in, just slid into to open slots.

         

I got the machine reassembled and started taking a look at what it would be like on its side. Because the belt release lever and tracking control are on the side they are, that side will have to be "up". The axle end will have to end up in a hole in the base plate.

 
         
   
Here I've leveled it so I can get an idea of how much lower support will have to be built onto the base.

It's apparent to me at this point that the operation I carried out today, removal of the disk assembly, is going to be considerably different for each machine brand, depending on which side the disk is mounted on and how the entire thing was built. However, I can't imagine one being much more difficult than this one was. I expect most would be much easier.

As noted, tomorrow's work will be to build the actual base. This will be done with 3/4" plywood.

Stay tuned...
Dick in Seattle

"It ain't how well the bow you shoot shoots, it's how well you shoot the bow you shoot."

Offline Osagetree

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Re: Dick's Bow Swap Build
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2011, 04:54:00 AM »
Looks like you're going all out Dick. Can't wait to see more!
>>--TGMM--> Family of the Bow

Offline scottm

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Re: Dick's Bow Swap Build
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2011, 07:44:00 AM »
Dick I cant wait for tomorrows adventure. This sounds like one of my projects LOL!How many knuckles are bleeding at this time!If this were my project it would be at least 2 skinned knuckles and at least one purple finger nail!And they say fingernails only grow back once!Who ever started that wives tail!LoL!

Offline KellyG

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Re: Dick's Bow Swap Build
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2011, 09:15:00 AM »
all this 100lb stuff from a man requesting a < 30# bow. You aint fooling me now Dick. Although if you took this act on the road and prefomed it every nite accross the country I would pay to see it.
  :laughing:    :laughing:    :laughing:

Offline Dick in Seattle

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Re: Dick's Bow Swap Build
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2011, 09:34:00 AM »
Kelly... almost every movement of that thing was done with mind over matter...  roll around table the same height as the shelf... transfer boards... levers... rolling it over on edges without actually lifting it, etc.  Of course, occasionally the mind failed, hence the comment re fingers!  The one time when it had to be actually supported while not on something, I called for help. In spite of all that, it was a three doses of Tylenol job.
Dick in Seattle

"It ain't how well the bow you shoot shoots, it's how well you shoot the bow you shoot."

Offline tradbower

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Re: Dick's Bow Swap Build
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2011, 09:54:00 AM »
I cant wait for the next issue of the "converted belt sander" . "geterdone" if it works out I may just give it a try.  :D
"Never to old to learn something new"

Offline hova

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Re: Dick's Bow Swap Build
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2011, 11:04:00 AM »
i am a mechanic (at least thats what the papers say) , so i have a few hints for ya.

If its chinese , use pliers. if its american , its chinese , so use pliers , just make sure they are made in america (china) pliers. this will help with all that size confusion.,

and two , you need a much bigger force multiplier . jewlers work on tiny parts , so the force multiplier doesnt need such a high degree of multiplication , just a precise application of said force. american (chinese) machinery is usually pretty heavy due to all the child sweat that goes into making it. therefore you need a much larger force multiplier.


i like to use fire , it makes me feel smarter than the object im working on.


good luck with the swap !

-hov
ain't got no gas in it...mmmhmmm...

Offline Dave Bowers

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Re: Dick's Bow Swap Build
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2011, 12:37:00 PM »
Hov   :biglaugh:

Offline Greg Szalewski

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Re: Dick's Bow Swap Build
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2011, 01:25:00 PM »
Dick, I just don't understand why you had so much trouble taking that thing apart. That hammer looks plenty big to me.
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Offline T Folts

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Re: Dick's Bow Swap Build
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2011, 06:54:00 PM »
I did a cheap 4X36 I got from harbor freight. I works great but not long enough so when it wears out then I will do the same to my Delta 6X48.

Terry
US ARMY 1984-1988

Offline Dick in Seattle

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Re: Dick's Bow Swap Build
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2011, 10:10:00 PM »
Sander Conversion

Second Phase - Building the Frame

Today was devoted to building a plywood frame strong enough to support the machine when it is installed on a tool base. The basic work is finished. I need to get a slightly larger belt. By the time I got everything positioned the geometry was such that I couldn't get the original belt on. In fact, I had to undo several brace blocks that had been glued and screwed on. My planning ahead somehow missed the need to keep space for getting at the belt. A couple of the braces for the table are now removable to provide for that need. I will be using this machine in the bow swap, and will then present some pictures of it in use.

 

The first step was to cut a base and mount the machine on it. Here is is sitting horizontal. It will end up vertical, with this piece attached to a larger base that will be mounted on a heavy duty tool stand. Note the 2x2. This will be glued and screwed to the larger base to hold the machine sideways.
   

 

This is the larger base. Note the cantilevered support pieces that have been attached to the smaller, vertical machine base, and the screws going through into the 2x2 and the cantilevers.

 

 

Here is the assembly turned upright as it will be in use.
   

 

This is the back of the upright mounting panel. It's actually shown here after I completed the work table. As I built the page i realized I didn't have this photo so I ran down and took it.


 

I've re-installed the belt assembly. Note the screws attaching to the cantilever pieces.. You can also see that a second piece of plywood has been attached to the base bottom to reinforce the bolts holding the machine.
   

 

These three holes originally attached the disk assembly. I installed heavy brace pieces under them to help support the machine weight.

 
 

In this shot I was setting up and positioning the brace blocks that will support the work table.
   

 

And here you have the essentially finished converted machine. The table isn't fastened down and won't be until the belt is on and the base is mounted on the tool stand. I may curve the corners for more comfortable standing work access. That decision will be made as I start using it.
Dick in Seattle

"It ain't how well the bow you shoot shoots, it's how well you shoot the bow you shoot."

Online jess stuart

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Re: Dick's Bow Swap Build
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2011, 10:16:00 PM »
Awesome job Dick.  Thanks for sharing.

Offline Ricky Wallace

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Re: Dick's Bow Swap Build
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2011, 10:25:00 PM »
Dad-gummet Dick!  Now I got another project to do!!!  Good job,looks great! hope mine comes out as well as yours!!
If you expect nothing from anyone,you will never be dissapointed. Watch,Listen,Learn U.S.ARMY  '86 '91

Offline Butch L

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Re: Dick's Bow Swap Build
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2011, 09:42:00 PM »
Thank you for the build along. It gives a person thoughts and ideas- hmmmm.

Butch L
TGMM Family of the Bow

Offline Dick in Seattle

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Re: Dick's Bow Swap Build
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2011, 09:58:00 PM »
thanks...  giving people thoughts is why I did it.  I want to make my website (where I end up putting all this stuff for reference) a place where aspiring bowyers can go and get the info they need on making a simple, but perfectly good, bow.  Not fancy, no three pieces, reflex/deflex, carbon limbs, etc., just a simple, good bow.  This was the next step.  

Next up will be building the swap bow, which I guess I'll do as a separate thread, since this one got so big.   After that, I have the plans for a lam grinding attachment for the sander, but that will be a separate project and only released after considerable testing.
Dick in Seattle

"It ain't how well the bow you shoot shoots, it's how well you shoot the bow you shoot."

Offline KellyG

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Re: Dick's Bow Swap Build
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2011, 10:22:00 PM »
awesome job Dick, whish I lived near ya I would offer my younger back for bowyer mentorship.
Kelly

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