The continuous story of "Elkie".

[NYArrow]

Good lesson learned here. I'm anxious to see your results. Best of luck with the hunt in Co!

[ber643]

You do tackle some interesting projects, ol' buddy. Keep on keepin' on, and best of luck with it - and the new Elk hunt.

[Pat B]

Snakewood, I think that the TBIII has better adhesion to the varnish than to the raw wood.  At least that is my understanding. Shellac may also work, I don't know.  Also, because Art said it works. He has never steered me wrong and has given me more good advise than almost anyone else I know. For me that is good enough.
  Why exactly, you will have to ask Art. I don't have to completely understand something for it to work. If that was the case I would have miserably failed with wood bow building years ago.
  Guys, lets just keep our fingers crossed about the success of this bow as well as the success at getting to GO elk hunting. Taking an elk is down on the list, going is top priority. Taking an elk on my second elk hunt is as predictable as winning the lottery...but I'll accept either with without reservation! d;^)

[red hill]

Good luch with all three, Pat! Elkie, the elk hunt, and the lottery!   :D  
Stan

ps
I have a red oak board bow (one of my first) finished with polyurethane. Could I sinew over the finish, or should it be sanded first? It came out under weight and I was hoping the sinew could add a little strength.
Just wondering...

[Art B]

Someone who uses hide glue should do a test and see if the stuff will stick to a varnished surface. I know that sinew will adhere very well to a scuffed up varnish surface using Tite-bond glue but an alternative for cleaning the backs of Osage bows would sure help a lot of folks. You see this problem with hide glue/sinew not adhereing well to Osage way to often.

Red Hill, what type glue are you thinking about using? What length/width is your bow? Have no experience with sinewing red oak though. Sinew backing will put more belly wood under compression so trapping the sides would be a good idea to help relieve this. Probably a good idea with red oak anytime. Good luck........Art

[red hill]

Art, its a pyramid board bow. Approximately
1 7/8" wide and 68" long. I'd like to use hide glue.
Stan

[SEMO_HUNTER]

Good luck to you Pat, I hope it works out well and I'll be watching this saga unfold from the other side of cyber space.

I have had similar experiences with flax comb and layering it just the way you did with the sinew, being sure to overlap/interweave the ends of the fibers so they lock together. I used TBII on unfinished Osage surface and I have gotten seperation later on. I think that alot of it has to do with the oil content in the Osage. If in fact the varnish will "Bond" itself with the natural oil in the wood, then the TBIII "Bonds" itself to the varnish........I think you and Art may be onto something?
You got 3 different materials there that you have to appeal to....varnish to osage.....TBIII to varnish....Sinew with hide glue to TBIII......and they all have to mingle together in harmony.

Rather than work against the oily properties of the Osage, use it to your advantage? It just might work.
I hope it works and I hope the sinew stays put this time, it will be interesting to find out how it does over time.

Hope you get to go on your elk hunt also, that's something I have dreamed about since I was a teenager.

[Art B]

That's way to long for any sinew job Stan. Can you cut 'er down a little? What's your draw length? Any possibility of a hickory backing at this point to raise the bow's weight?  Art

[red hill]

Art, this is one of the first board bows I made. It isn't strong enough for hunting but shoots well. I considered shortening it to increase poundage and I thought of adding hickory. Another board bow I tried both of those fix-ups on failed so I'm leery of a repeat.  
Since it is a simple board bow there's no loss.
Thanks for your help.
Stan

[Pat B]

A 1/8" hickory backing on your oak pyramid bow and glued up in about 3" of Perry reflex will kick your draw weight up quite a bit, more so that sinew on that long of a bow.

[Blue EagleBum]

Pat, Good luck on Elkie. I'm sure she'll pull through, no pun intended. Anxiously awaiting the verdict. Got to love that Osage. There's just something about Osage, I really do like it.

[shikari]

I just saw this Pat,I would suggest 4-5 coats of thin 20% concentration hideglue,let it dry between each coat then just take the peeled off layer of sinew dip it in glue and lay it on and wrap with ace bandage,it should work.

[Pat B]

Too late PJ. I glued the sinew sheet back on Elkie yeaterday with TBIII. I will add another layer of sinew to even out the surface then back it with snake skin.

[Pat B]

I wrapped Elkie with strips of old bed sheets when I glued down the sinew. After a few hours I removed the wrap. I';; let her sit in the form for a while and am going to add one more layer of sinew to smooth out the back before skinning.   Here are a few pics.
 

 

 

[kountzer0]

Wow Pat!  if patience is a virtue you sir are saintly!

By the way,I just noticed your tagline.  When I lived in NC I used to flyfish the Davidson in your neck of the woods.  Along with everyone else  :p

Good luck with Elkie and your trip and the Wapiti as well!  They have been kind to me so far in AZ - since I've taken 2 cows in 3 trips.  I really want to get a stickbow ready before this years hunt, assuming I am fortunate enough to be drawn again.

Jeff

[Pat B]

Jeff, I don't fly fish but I have heard that the Davidson is one of the ten best trout rivers in the US. It sure is a pretty river.
  Elkie is a special bow and she has an elk in her future. When done I'll give her back to Kenneth and make myself another "elk" bow if I get to go in Sept.

[Pat B]

Well, she slaped me again! After 2 days I unclamped Elkie. I floor tillered her to see how her limbs were bending before bracing her. As soon as I put pressure to the lower limb I heard a pop. I rubbed my hand down the sinew backing anf just past the lower fade it sounded hollow. I checked and found 4" had pulled away from the bow.
I have tried plan A and plan B so now for plan C I have removed the sinew(again), lightly scraped the old glue and varnish off and sanded her smooth. I will put a rawhide backing on her and that will be that. She just doesn't like what I'm trying to make her.
 Elkie still feels pretty strong. After the rawhide I'll check her weight. She may yet take an elk! You just have to keep a positive attitude!!!

[PEARL DRUMS]

Bummer Pat! TBIII let you down. I didnt see this one coming. Maybe URAC would hold tight?

[ranger 3]

Sorry Pat, I made a bow for a friend and put raw hide on the back and he is still shooting after two years.I mean this guy shoots a lot and pulls to 30" it is holding great (knock on wood). I put sinew on one and broke right on the bat, I won't do it again.

[CaptainJ]

Hey Pat.

Thanks for your patience and openness in cataloging this saga of Elkie for us. It certainly gives us a chance to show each other that we are not alone in the frustration of bow building and hopefully some of the beginners will be encouraged to keep going when things don't work out.

Did you try the sinew on bare rough wood yet? I have not sinewed a bow but it seems to me that wood glue wouldn't stick well to varnish. I used to do some furniture restoration and that was my experience anyway.

Just ignore me if I'm adding to your frustration, but I am curious about the varnish vs bare wood thing. If I had some sinew here I'd test it myself. Maybe I'll have to get some and try it.

Thanks again Pat, and if you do make it back down to the San Juans give me a shout. I'm in Grand Junction.

CJ