Trying - To Get My Hands/Head Back Into It

[ber643]

My heart never fully got out of it but I guess it's been a good two years since I tried to make a bow. I've never claimed to make too much progress, though I did get "lucky" with a few, and enjoyed it a bunch. My biggest problem now is so called short-time memory loss. I always seemed to do better when i did a build-a-long type thread, so others could help me (and learn from my mistakes/glitches - LOL) So here I go - again.

I have a few "staves", etc. to tackle but i wanted to start with one I've had the longest. It was given to me by old friend "Linc" and has relatively tight rings, and is a thin stave. I've been messing with it a couple weeks now and taking a few pics as I've gone. I've also already run into road bumps (frost upheavels is probably more descriptive) and PM'd Pat and Art to jog my headbone. Now I've run into another problem, that i probably should have run into earlier, if my memory had been playing fair with me so I'd proceeded logically - LOL

I plan to post some pics and bring the thread up to date, and then post some pics of what has my little red wagon sort of bottomed out and see what y'all think.

The stave is old, very dry, started out with bark on and some old wormholes. It also has a nice natural reflex to it that i hope will stay in, and a curve to the side that i probably will have to heat bend out - later. Since there are a number of pics already it will take me a few posts to get it up to date but I'll try to get that done this evening. I hope I get the picture sequence right (as they were taken/stored in between other pics/subjects), or at least in half-way logical order.

Took the dark Brown Bark off with a K-bar used like a scraper, leaving almost yellowish under-bark:

     

Then went to work with a drawknife, in short, cautious sessions:

     

     

Ends, with some of what would have been the cambrium earlier still on top/back - pretty dry now:

     

     

(more to come)

[ber643]

Continuing to remove shavings - as seen in the plastic tub:

 

Close up:

 

After next session, and this is when I am beginning to realize (and be bothered by) the fact that I am not seeing the coloring  and/or texture (that i recalled from earlier work) of early and late wood "layers":

 

 

Posted these pics in another thread about tight rings for response and advice:

 

 

Art suggested taking the stave down another 1/2"

(more to follow)

[ber643]

After next session (or two) with DK and Spoke Shave:

   

Closer up pics:

   

   

Now to the current stage. I took more off today in a session or two and here is a pic of the full stave:

   

In the next post I will post 6 close ups of sections from the above depiction (taken from top to bottom). This will allow folks to see the coloration, Texture (I hope), etc. that is stumping me as to whether I am, or am not, getting a clear ring chased. I swear, I can't tell -   wherein lies my current problem  . It mostly feels like it is all one level (when running ones hand over it) but it doesn't look it due to the coloration changes and whorls. However I've never worked an Osage stave this old.

[ber643]

Six portioned close-up pics, along stave's length, Top (smaller end) to bottom (larger end):

I hope that folks more experienced will see in these pics what they would probably know in an instant if they were here in person - or at least enough to make a more educated guess than I fear I can:

Top:

     

     

     

     

     

Bottom:

     

Or am I just over-thinking it and should just go further down untill I get a clearer indication? Does that ever come in old staves? Linc told me he had the stave for a lonnngggg time and it's been here a couple of years now in addition - perhaps that doesn't even mater. Oh yeah, one good thing, I've pretty well cleared all the worm holes off it seems.

Thanks for looking - B

PS - the thickness is now 7/8" at small end and 1 1/8" at the large end - FWIW.

[Art B]

One thing that will help you along at this point Bernie would be to get your intended bow rough shaped to size (at least the sides) which will save you a whole bunch of dogging on the back of that stave. Once shaped, then tackle those thin rings. Much more fun that way.

Unless you're doing all that work out of boredom  :D  !

[broketooth]

lookin good so far bernie. thin ringed osage is a pain to chase but once you have a good ring it makes for a perty bow. im liking thin ringed osage better than thick ringed for sure. ruddy

[Stiks-n-Strings]

Bernie it looks to me like there is still some sap wood in a few spots.

 I like use a scraper on those thin ring staves. they can be tricky. I would take Pat's advice and do some hoggin to get rid of unneeded wood on the sides.

 Stiks

[ber643]

OK - sounds good guys. I started to do that before but wound up having to scrape the marks off cause I'd done it too soon. LOL - Not boredom, Art just that the stave wasn't all that wide to start with so I figured I could use the "hoggin" practice -         .

I'll take the advice and with less "Back" width to look at perhaps it will be easier to see the chaseing. I'll continue from here as things develope - unless they go to heck in a handbasket -      :D  

Oh, Sticks, I do have and use a cabinet scrapper  (also an industrial hacksaw blade back and a K-bar) quite a bit in each session. Either in certain places and/or to smooth things out. I don't always remember to mention those tools though. I'll probably be using it quite a bit more now also, as I go further with this one.

Thanks friends.

Maybe I can get my head straight again now - we'll see.

[Art B]

How long is your stave Bernie? Got any certain design in mind?

Has your stave been stored in a climate controlled enviroment?

[ber643]

The stave is 61", Art. I figured to do sort of a pyramidal and kind of patterened as a cross between my "It" bow (from my avatar, that got crunched), and my Dano Gren bow (both Osages) that i like so well.

I layed out a rough plan, (since I know it'll be coming off most likely - at least once more - LOL). About 1 3/8" at fades tapering to 5/8" at the ends (for now - they'll probably wind up closer to 1/2") - and then I'll be flexible. One limb looks pretty good, the other looks like it may have about 4 or 5 knots to deal with. Only one end has very much to come off the sides. Does any of that sound "reas-able", old friend?

Oh, yes, the stave has been in the house ever since Linc sent it to me (aprox. 2 yrs).

[Art B]

I think that pyramid design is a very good choice Bernie. It's cirular drawn profile allows for a bit longer draw for shorter bows IMO. I like to keep the outer third pretty stiff or even flipped myself.

With you stave being inside it can still have uneven MC if it's been in an upright position. If so then rough your bow out and lay flat for a week or so to even out the MC from end to end. Of course, if stored horizonally, you're good to go.

And since you're work with a full length stave you'll have to deal with uneven limb working properties (much of this stuff I'm sure you know). My firm belief is to "build the bow as it stands in the tree". The cleaner stronger trunk wood being the lower limb.

[ber643]

Yeh, Art, even though I said the stave (in the sectional pics) had the large (trunk) end at the top, it's actually the other way around in those pics (I'll have corrected that in that post), and I intend to make it so that (bottom of the tree and pics) will be the bottom, cleaner limb and end of the bow. The top (the small, upper end) is the one that may have knots in the way. Am I thinking right, in regards to your last paragraph referances?

I'll have to try that about leaving the outer third a little stiffer. You can see in my avatar that it didn't work out that way with "It" (though she was a sweet shooter) but I think my Dano bow may be a little stiffer ( and it also is a sweet shooter).  I'll have to take a look at one of my FDs with that bow.

(I think I better go to bed - I'm getting a headache now         )

Oh yeah, the stave has been stored vertical - even though I know better and/or should rotate it monthly as with verticle hanging bows, (as you instructed me back when). So, I will let it lay horizontal for a week after roughing it out, and before proceeding, right? Right. (I have 3 others I better lay down in there also    :rolleyes:   .)

[Art B]

You're correct about the butt ends Bernie. Most often its fairly easy to tell how a stave/billets/boards was oriented in the tree. A tree trunk is tapered and so will it's growth rings. Growth ring's radius is larger/flatter at the butt end vs the top.

[ber643]

uh-huh, that's 'zactly how she looks, Art. Looks like it probably was part of a rather smallish Osage tree.

[Art B]

Smaller trees makes stronger bows Bernie. Or at least I think they do......Art

[SEMO_HUNTER]

Listen to ArtB, I must agree with everything he's said so far. As soon as I get a stave worked down through the bark and sapwood where I can see what I've got to work with. I'll try to get rid of as much wood from the sides as possible to make the rings go down much quicker. I don't like doing all that work for nothing, and put that energy and time to better use elsewhere.

BTW- Your bowyers ruler went out last Friday, so you should have it soon.

Looking good Bernie, keep up the good work. I'll check in now and then to see where your at.

[ber643]

Yep - as I said before (somewhere in these threads), Art's my hero - not to mention a very good friend -            The "laminated" Bowyer's rule arrived today, Cris, just sent you a PM about a half hour ago. Thank you very much (nice one).

Art, I almost added to my last post (about the stave being from a smallish tree), "or a limb," but decided  not to go out on that particular limb      :D   . However, today Ruddy and I, putting our headbones together, decided there is a good chance that is exactly the case - but we may still be all wet - wouldn't be the first time.

Ruddy had seen my posts from yesterday and called me early this AM. Since we hadn't got together for a while, and I was wrassling with getting "into" this stave, he asked why I didn't bring it up there and we'd double-team it. Since I am a very sociable rascal, and wasn't too pleased with the way my bow layout (from last night) was showing up, plus all the knots I was running into, I took him up on the offer.

Rudy looked it over and only found one side, of one limb outline, a little off. he did agree it was not standing out too well. So, we erased the lines and redid it, with the correction, and marked the knots better. Then between us we hogged the sides, with a draw knife, where we could, and did some file work with a farrier's rasp (and a smaller rasp) between a few of the knots. In case you hadn't guessed it, friend ruddy has more "Oooomph!" behind his efforts than this ol' hoss does - he's speedier too. We got a good start on it and most all that is left now (to remove from the sides) is rasp work between the knots and perhaps some finessing around them, with a cabinet scrapper. I can do that here at home, so I thanked Ruddy and left - with the generous loan of a bending form he made, for later. We did discover a lot of horazontal pinknots on the sides that could turn into trouble makers. That is also what made us decide the stave could be actually a tree limb - perhaps           .

I took  a couple of pics after I got home (and before I did/do any more work. I was hoping to show y'all the layout (and some of the knots) better in them - but I'm not sure it worked until I see the review.

Full Stave back:

   

Close up of top limb:

   

Close up of side of same limb tip and it's side-knots:

   

The outline shows up a little in the middle pic, if you look close - but it shows up as a real good guide for me now. More after I finish up the side work - a day or so for me probably - LOL.

I guess by now it's plain to see that both Rudy and I are now curious as to whether anybody works side knots (I don't see any on any of my bows), or do I have the beginning of a burn pile here, guys?

[broketooth]

bernie, i think i gave you a good start. we'll just have to look at it as an experiment. you are not alone in this. if it has to be we'll all get our hands and eyes in on this and make it happen. it looks like a good challenge to me. keep up with the pics talk to ya soon . ruddy

[Art B]

It could be a limb stave Bernie but it's growth ring's rate of taper doesn't reflect that. Limbs most often have a greater rate of taper than the tree's trunk.

Those side knots shouldn't present any problems. They run out at an angle from the stave's center and as you narrow the side profile you'll have cleaner belly wood to work with.

[ber643]

Well That sounds very encouraging, Art, so I'll just "continue to march" (actually did a little last night, on one side, of one limb), and we'll see what becomes of them. If needed I'll try calling on the spirit of Houdini and see if they'll disappear -          

Thanks again, for your valuable insight, Art.

Yes, Ruddy, you certainly did help me clear a sort of "mental roadblock" and get me to "gnawing away" at this stave, and I appreciate your time and help.