3Rivers Archery



The Trad Gang Digital Market













Contribute to Trad Gang and Access the Classifieds!

Become a Trad Gang Sponsor!

Traditional Archery for Bowhunters






LEFT HAND BOWS CLASSIFIEDS TRAD GANG CLASSIFIEDS ACCESS RIGHT HAND BOWS CLASSIFIEDS


Author Topic: elk hunting  (Read 1151 times)

Offline rockz

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 15
Re: elk hunting
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2008, 06:57:00 PM »
Frank,
Put that compound down and practice with your recurve.
Keep shooting and then shoot some more. You will become very proficient and you will be able to kill an elk.

I speak from experience.

You won't regret it.

The only reason not to hunt elk  with your recurve is because you haven't practiced enough.
It will have more than enough oomph for elk. plenty

Offline Arrow4Christ

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 557
Re: elk hunting
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2008, 07:13:00 PM »
Just tune your arrows perfectly, get well designed sharp broadheads, and don't take shots beyond your effective range and you'll be fine. Some peoples' effective range is 15 yards, some trad guys can shoot over 40 very well, it just depends.

What specific bow are you shooting?

Offline Dave2old

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 779
Re: elk hunting
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2008, 07:48:00 PM »
I generally agree with A4C ... but ... there are a LOT more elements to "effective range" than just where we can "generally" (we can toss out those occasional "fliers," right?) put arrows on a practice range under perfect conditions, including wind, the shooter's mental and physical state (did you just climb a mountain, and are you hyper-buck-fevered because this is your first close encounter with a 700-pound deer?, etc.). I don't give a hoot whether we recruit new traditional "shooters" or not, sorry. As Don Thomas says, "anyone can buy a longbow." True traditionalists aren't recruited, we are "created" by some mysterious internal difference that makes us want to do things simply, ethically, and well, no matter the costs to our "success." Guys, I've lived this drama very personally for a very long time, and come to the point near the end of my run where I don't give a hoot about quantity of hunters, including trad hunters, but only about quality. I don't give a hoot about your or my "chances" of doing this or that at the far edge of probabilities ... I care about the gorgeous animals we work so hard to kill, and what our view of their worth reveals about our view of our own worth. What we do is justifiable only when we prepare for killing game as we would prepare to kill ourselves or our closest loved ones, should it have to be done: fast, clean, painless, and as close as possible to ZERO chance of leaving a cripple behind in pain. If you care less than that about the animals we "harvest" (a stupid euphemism, as deer and elk are NOT turnips!), then please go bowling, as you are not an ally, but the enemy. This is not some computer game; this is REAL -- life and death. You want to recruit ANYone to trad hunting at ANY cost to the game and the self-respect of our proud minority -- not with my blessings. I want fewer and better hunters out there. The biggest force calling for more hunters at any cost is the industry, who wants to Sell Stuff to us, and the paid flunkies of that industry ... and well-meaning but suckered-in followers. This guy had it right when he said he'd take his compound hunting again this year for elk, and save the trad bow for whitetails where he knows he's in the ethical ballpark. Trad hunting is not up for election. We don't need votes or delegates. We do need to hold to the highest possible standards, as no one else is these days. Dave

Offline rg176bnc

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 241
Re: elk hunting
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2008, 08:18:00 PM »
I think we successfully ran Frank off for no good reason.  His 50# LB would have been more than enough.  Regardless of what you shoot from stick-n-string to 300 mag, if ya get in the shoulder bone your singing a sad tale.

Offline frank the hunter

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 115
Re: elk hunting
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2008, 09:51:00 PM »
guys i did not what to make this tobe more then it is. i have been hunting with a compound for 30 years took numers pope & young white tails. spot & stocked manny pope & young black bears. was up in alasks on grily hunt & had one about 12 yards away let him walk. was looking for boone & crocket.so as for a hunter gos i have been around. I just wanted to try something differnt, so i went to trad archey& was just asking about the power of the bow. thank you for all the help & have a great day.

Offline rappstar

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 287
Re: elk hunting
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2008, 10:21:00 PM »
I can't believe what i just read.  Challenging the ethics of shooting a 50lb longbow on elk @ 30 yards?

Offline 72highboy

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: elk hunting
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2008, 01:00:00 AM »
That's it...after reading this post I am moving to the coast to live in a redwood tree like Butterfly did, that way they can't cut it down with me in it. Are there any tradgangers on the coast that could bring me food to my tree? Vegan only please. I now have lots of good gear for sale. Anybody want a few bows and lots of other equipment?

Or maybe I will go the other drastic route...anybody want to trade all of my archery equipment for a .416 Rigby, I am going squirrel hunting tomorrow and don't want to be under gunned. I mean really I don't the squirrels to suffer or be unethical about my hunting practices.

Offline BradLantz

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 474
Re: elk hunting
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2008, 07:55:00 AM »
frank the hunter - if ou've accomplished that much, then I suspect deep down you're looking for a more personal challenge anyway, right ? killing more animals with a compound is gauranteed, but with a trad bow ? THATS CHALLENGE isn't it ?

Shoot your 53# bow, take shots you feel you can make, and enjoy a helluva hunt. If you kill an elk with that bow, imagine the accomplishment and satisfaction ? and if you dont imagine the story and the thrill of that trad elk hunt you'll have ?

No one is turning anyone here into a "compounder" BTW

Offline Featherbuster

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 489
Re: elk hunting
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2008, 08:21:00 AM »
Frank.....I just got thru reading all the post here and it looks to me a hornets nest was stirred up.  :readit:   I wacthed a fellow shoot an elk with a 51# longbow @21 yards and the elk went less then 50 yards and was down.  you have enough bow, but shot placement is critical.
We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. - Tribe Unknown


Southern Traditional Archery

Offline doeboy

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 442
Re: elk hunting
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2008, 08:41:00 AM »
We have to respect Dave2old opinion, just like we would want him to respect ours. But it’s just that...an opinion? I just don’t understand this comment:

 "This guy had it right when he said he'd take his compound hunting again this year for elk, and save the trad bow for whitetails where he knows he's in the ethical ballpark."

Are whitetails any less of an animal? Do they not demand the same respect as a Colorado Elk? And last time I checked the vitals on a deer are smaller? High standards are a must, but it could have been communicated in a better way, maybe offering some friendly advice or even a phone call to hash this out. Then you would have known his experiences and could have judged his skill level before making assumptions. Just my  OPINION.

Good Luck with any decision you make. And keep shooting!

Offline pumatrax

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 259
Re: elk hunting
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2008, 10:40:00 AM »
My $.02 worth..As far as I'm concerned it's about the "hunt" not the kill. Sounds to me that traditional archery is not his thing ; it's either in your blood or it's not.True traditional archers make a commitment to the challenge.Getting in close is a BIG part of it.We should all limit our distance to be ethical and effective.In my opinion 50# is plenty at the "right" distance with the right (man or women) behind the bow.JUST SAYIN'...Doug

Offline Mark Baker

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1633
Re: elk hunting
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2008, 11:39:00 AM »
I've tried staying out of this one, but I'm going to "weigh" in here, and keep it to the point.

Whitetails are definetly "lesser" animals than  elk....as far as body size and difficulty to kill.   Take this from somebody who hunts them regularly and has hundreds of friends who do so  as well.  Dave is one  of them, and simply cares dearly for the resource.    He is from CO, I am from  MT....we are not from  NJ, MO, or any such state where an elk hunting endeavor is an occasional occurance by  ourselves  or our  buddies....so take this "opinion" as you may.

Elk  being bigger, require bigger gear, with  optimal performance regarding broadhead selection and tuning.   Anything less is disrespectful  to  the  game.  

Frank...your settup is at the "bottom" in terms of  bow  poundage, and you  need to  use heavy arrows and good two-blade heads.   There I've said it.  I tell all hunters who  ask,  the same thing...to "challenge" them  to  improve their settups.   They ask....we tell them what we  think!  

Frank...you  should limit yourself, especially with a  lighter bow  weight settup,  to close (less than 20 yards) shots and broadside only!  I  have concerns for folks, especially at the low end of the  bow weight spectrum, shooting quartering away shots at elk, because an elks full stomach is the size of a  bale of hay...thats a lot to get through to reach vitals.   Keep  it in  mind.     By  the way, I tell  every bowhunter that asks,  the same thing.

A poorly hit elk is simply a nightmare.   They can go  for miles, and you  will not  be able to keep  up.   Blood spoor most often is sparse at best.   Keep that in mind,  I tell every bowhunter that asks the  same thing.  

I'm sure everyone here, myself included can relate a tale of an easy elk kill.   I can also give you examples of twenty   bad ones for every  good one.   And many with folks with much better settups  than a  lot of  you  guys  on  here are advocating.  A hunter from Jersey, or anywhere back east, upon seeing an elk for the first time at close range, is likely to be overwhelmed.  Just because  you can pull of a 30 yard shot at  a deer, does'nt mean you can  repeat your success at 20, or 15, or 10, or even  5 yards for  that matter.  It happens, and it happens a lot.  I've seen very experienced elk  hunters get rattled and miss the whole animal at less than 15 yards.  Bigger, don't mean  easier.  

I  would'nt dream of going to Africa to  hunt african game, without talking to folks who have a great deal of  experience in  the matter.   Their are some on here who need to  learn to "yeild", IMO their limited experience a bit,  and listen to those who have done it quite a bit.     As a guide out west, I saw half the bowhunters I  guided be overwhelmed with the experience of elk hunting, despite their preparations.  My best advice is learn from those who know....and plan for the worst scenarios, and then you won't be surprised when they happen, and if they don't, you  will have had  a  much better hunt in the end for the  extra preparation you put in.    

It' gonna be a challenge, but hey, that's what it's about for us trad guys anyway.
My head is full of wanderlust, my quiver's full of hope.  I've got the urge to walk the prairie and chase the antelope! - Nimrod Neurosis

Offline JC

  • Moderator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 4462
Re: elk hunting
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2008, 12:43:00 PM »
Frank, I wish you luck on your endeavor...and hope that you choose to take your simple stick and string to hunt with.

As for me, I have never killed an elk with a bow. I do however know what my equipment and I are capable of....so I wouldn't hesitate to shoot at (and I believe cleanly kill) an elk at 30, maybe even 40 yards if the conditions were perfect and that "green light" went off in my head. Of course I'd prefer 10...but I know I could do it further if everything felt right. Your mileage may vary...
"Being there was good enough..." Charlie Lamb reflecting on a hunt
TGMM Brotherhood of the Bow

Offline DeerSpotter

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1296
Re: elk hunting
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2008, 12:47:00 PM »
From Mark Baker
"that's what it's about for us trad guys anyway"

Does that include others that are not from Montana or Colorado?

It sounds a little bit like categorizing, experiencizing people.  I know that we have to know our limitations, and calculate our abilities.  But aren't we making a mountain out of a mole hill, when we're talking about a 50 lb. bow, and a 30 yd. shot.  The gentleman hasn't even given us a scenario, a lot of comments have duped him for failure.

And that maybe exactly what happens, but isn't that a part of experiencing, can each of us by giving advice, assure him of success !

Isn't that a part of traditional hunting, are we saying those that have the experience are better because they will not fail?  I think were stretching it, and this isn't about one person, think of all those that may have wanted to go elk hunting, and they come across something like this, and we dashes their hopes, gives them a lack of confidence in their abilities, just because they've read something by those that say they have " more experience" because they have shot an elk.

In the time I've been here, which is years, this is the first time, I feel disappointment in any advice that has been given.  And in some cases or comments a taste of arrogance.  We all have to start someplace, and I realize, not on elk.  But this gentleman is not a newbie.  I think we should evaluate ourselves, and then looked down at our feet, and see whose shoes we are wearing.


Pastor Carl
--------------------------
 Heb.13:5-6

Offline BradLantz

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 474
Re: elk hunting
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2008, 02:19:00 PM »
I've killed several elk .... 7 I think ... none with traditional. They die pretty darn quick if hit right. I'll also say they're tough as nails if hit wrong.

A guy I know hit an elk with archery tackle (compound) and it struck the outside of the last rib, quartered up on the outside, into the top of the shoulder and came to rest in the back of the neck area. 1 1/2 GPS miles and they found that bull bled out - dead.

If I were archery hunting bulls this fall, I'd be taking my 54# Zipper recurve, and an arrow combo that flies best out of that bow. I'm thinking a 650 +/- grain total weight carbon weighted shaft with a 130 gr No Mercy single bevel broadhead (steel inserts)

And I'd shoot bulls at 1 yard to 45 yards or something like that, feeling the shot as it comes and making the decision when its there. I've passed some dandy whitetails at less than 10 yards, shot at others at 25-30

Offline steadman

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 4498
Re: elk hunting
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2008, 02:21:00 PM »
Very well put Carl!
" Just concentrate and don't freak out next time" my son Tyler(age 7) giving advise after watching me miss a big mulie.

Offline Mark Baker

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1633
Re: elk hunting
« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2008, 02:33:00 PM »
Carl...he asked for our advice, and that is mine.  He can take it, along with my  credentials and the others who opined, for what it is worth.    I'll  make my  arguments  with  anybody...and I can back them up with the experiences too.   Sites like this exist for the "newbies" to learn from.   Sometimes advice is not necessarily what one might want to hear...does that mean I should "sugar coat" it for anyone.   NO WAY!    

We  all make our mistakes in life and bowhunting.  I've made mine, and I'm sure you've made  yours.  Frank can take the info on here, from the thread he started, and sort it out for himself.   A very regal game animals life may depend on it....and his experience with the same  - that he takes home with him and shares with everybody that asks "How was your  hunt"  will be colored by it.   He has plenty of  experience as a bowhunter....but bowhunting with  trad is just what I said, a challenge,  and  that  is precisely  why we  take it  up.   If it is about just killing an elk....use  a  rifle!    

Why would anyone, when setting upon a journey that already  takes such introspection....trad bowhunting...and the practice and  work  that goes into it, not do the job right.   As hunters  we owe it to  the  game.   As bowhunters who  care about the future,  our  actions  are being closely watched.   I  would not go  hunting with  a selfbow that I thought "might"  kill an animal, and  "might"  break, or  might not.   I  would want to know  that I would have adequate equipment, and take adequate shot choices and not leave those things that I  could control  to  chance in such instances....whether it be whitetails or elk or rabbits for that matter.  

Trad bowhunting IS about challenges, and how else do we know what our limits are without the challenge.     There is nothing negative about knowing what your up  against...in fact, it helps one to overcome the obastacles.   Frank will do OK...if he has a mind to.  In fact he is the better for asking.   Do you doubt that?  

This isn't about arogance, I assure you.   But I think that  lately there has been a rash of poor advice and poor  choices on here and on  other trad bow sites.   I know  that it comes  with the new  people  that are drawn to our sport...but they are drawn to it for  a  reason,  and it ain't because it is easy.  Learning curves  are fine....but when an animals life depends on your choices...and you ask, I am gonna tell you like I see it.    

I mean no disrespect to new folks  in  this sport at all....but I  do care about where it is going, and I want to  see it stay around for awhile, and this site is a great place to ask questions and get good answers....in a respectful  manner, too.   But there is  also  a lot of good intentioned folks that are giving marginal advice...and passing off for truth what really is conjecture and gossip.   Get the facts, and do the work before you take on the  challenges...and be the better for it.   That's dedication...and that's traditional bowhunting.
My head is full of wanderlust, my quiver's full of hope.  I've got the urge to walk the prairie and chase the antelope! - Nimrod Neurosis

Offline Richie Nell

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 785
Re: elk hunting
« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2008, 03:14:00 PM »
Mark Baker...I have only hunted elk one time(last September) and I totally agree with your post.

I believe it is unethical and pure nonsense for a traditional bowhunter to try to hunt with less bow weight than he or she can accurately shoot. Not accurately shoot for 5 hours each practice session, accurately shoot 45 minutes or so each time.  If not, I feel the hunter is leaving too much on the table as far as unused ability and resources.  I think that is just wrong.

If a hunter has to ask the question "Is my bow too light to hunt elk with?" Then YES it is.  Usually that question is coming from someone who wants to see what they can just "get by with" rather than "how much can I pull(maximizing my resources) to increase my chances of making a clean kill...with traditional equipment.

As I have mentioned in previous posts, it seems that so many trad guys are forgetting that the bow and arrow is an extremely lethal weapon to pursue game with not just a portable piece of furniture to shoot 3-D.  
Richie
Richie Nell

Black Widow
PSA X Osage/Kingwood 71#@31

Offline frank the hunter

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 115
Re: elk hunting
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2008, 03:19:00 PM »
once again guys thanks for all the help. Mark baker could not have sais it any better. when i dont no something i ask so i can be a better hunter. i went to trad because i was looking for more challenge. i have done very well at the aminals i have hunted & now its time to move onto a new venther. guys all have geat & save hunts. ps sorry guys for some of the spelling i will abmit that i stink at it.

Offline DeerSpotter

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1296
Re: elk hunting
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2008, 03:52:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by frank the hunter:
hi everyone i am going on my first elk hunt.wood you take a 30 yard shoot with a 50 pound long bow. i shoot out to 30 yard will, but dont no if it wii kill that far.i am new to trad started about 7 mounts ago. i took a doe at about 25 yards this past hunting season. thank you guys & have a great day.
He's not in the woods, his Arrow is not nocked, he is not a full draw, there is no elk standing in front of him.

He asked if you would take a 30 yd. shot with a 50 lb. bow.  That's all, he did not clarify if it was the elk was broadsided, if it was quartering away, if it was a downward shot, if the elk was laying down.  Just would you take a 30 yd. shot with a 50 lb. bow. I don't think anyone answered that question !

And since it's a political year, the music was playing and the feet were moving.  But no one answered the question.

I would have to say yes, if I was capable, and confident, and efficient with a 50 lb. bow.  Yes I would take the shot, provided the animal was not looking at me, and was distracted, most of all relaxed.

Would I take any shots closer than 30 yd., he asked, most definitely, but the question was would it kill at 30 yd., no one expounded on the position of the elk, when I read that thread they gave me the impression that 50 lbs. was definitely a very limited, minimal, poundage for elk hunting, I disagree, I would hunt elk was a 50 lb. bow.

No one mentioned the skills of the man, because he did not expound upon his talent.  Don't get me wrong Mark, I understand your commitment, I understand your passion for hunting properly, ethically, I am not challenging that at all.  I admire that you stand up for what you believe is right.  I was just trying to get a point across that we do not know anything else about him and his skills until he told us.

I'll help you understand more on were I am coming from;

I have a box in the corner my office I brought home last night. because at the bow shop, we received a shipment in, of compound bows, I brought the box home, it's for a Black Ice Bowtech compound bow I purchased last year.
 I brought it home to box it up, so that I do not have "crutch" to fall back onto when I start shooting my new "whip" because I can't stand failure, I passed on 7 deer this year, one was a beautiful chocolate buck, 6 pointer, I would have loved to take him, but the rules did not allow me, I was hunting on somebody else's land, I know how to follow rules, I know how to follow my heart, and there is consequences when you follow the rules, or when you break them, you live with those choices for the rest your life, because they stick in your mind one way or another, either to haunt you, or to bless you the rest your days.  And that is what traditional archery is about.

Rules and regulations that a man sets in his heart, not from others, not from a book, not from the best video out there.  If the man can't make those choices in his heart, he dare not step into the woods.  I have people that will hunt with me, because they know that when it comes down to the point of taking a shot, they can trust that I will make a good one, or I won't make one at all.  I guess what I'm trying to tell you is I understand your commitment.  I was just trying to get others to see the whole thing from his side.  It's what I do for living, some people think it's a bad habit, some people think it's good.  Those that think it's a bad habit, will think again when they find out their decision was wrong.
But then it will last for eternity.  Not just a moment on a thread.

I'm sorry if I offended you, I would rather stand up next to a man that knows his heart, then one that is just along for the ride.

Pastor Carl
--------------------------
 Heb.13:5-6

Users currently browsing this topic:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
 

Contact Us | Trad Gang.com © | User Agreement

Copyright 2003 thru 2024 ~ Trad Gang.com ©