elk hunting

[Steertalker]

Frank,

If you are capable of making a clean shot at 30 yds with your equipment then by all means go for it.  Your bow is more than enough to do it.  Truth is..you equipment is deadly well past 30 yds...even on elk!!!  Take a range finder and be absolutely sure of the distance and do what you know you are capable of.

Brett

[Terry Green]

I agree that the equipment could be boarderline.....don't know, never shot an elk.

Some 60# bows of yesteryear are now today's 50# bows.  A 50# HH is not the same as a 50# MOAB (not knocking HHs BTW) IF I shot that weight bow, I'd make sure I had a 650 grain sharp sharp sharp 2 blade.  I will say I'd feel a lot better shooting 55# and better at 60#s.  

Yeah, I can shoot 60#s just as accurate for 6 hours, while standing on one leg  - whistling dixie  - in the pouring rain - after midnight -  during a full moon.  Just kidding.        


As far as the shot distance, wow, lots of gavels being dropped. I've shot plenty of 90-100 pound doe at twenty yards, so I don't see a problem with me shooting an elk at 30.  1/3rd longer shot and 3 times bigger vitals.....just don't see the problem.

If I was 'into the hunt' like I normally get, I wouldn't know if the elk was 25 or 35 yards if the light turned green as JC said.  I don't run around with a tape measure, nor do I expect myself to go into some range gauging guesstimate when I need to be immersed in aiming and executing the shot when window of opportunity opens.  Nor do I need someone along to tell me when its OK to shoot.

If you are confident in your shooting, then you gotta make the shot when you feel ist right, and pass when its wrong. Who am I to make that decision for you?  You have your own inner voice, and its usually right....if you'll just listen to it.

Have fun!!!

[DeerSpotter]

"If you are confident in your shooting, then you gotta make the shot when you feel ist right, and pass when its wrong. Who am I to make that decision for you? You have your own inner voice, and its usually right....if you'll just listen to it."


Well said Terry & Brett


Pastor Carl

[Ray Hammond]

I have shot elk. I have seen the gamut- a compound hunter I was in camp with had a five yard shot at a 350 bull, uphill, steep angle, and bounced his carbon speed demon arrow off the side of the bull.

I've seen experienced traditional bowhunters shoot the dirt between a herd bull's legs at 10 yards.

I've seen a compound shooter hit a bull at 50 yards dead in the goodie box and it went 15 yards and dropped.

It sounds to me like you have a lot of experience shooting animals- I think you will be OK, with a 10-12 grain per lb of draw arrow with a really sharp two blade head: pick your shot, make it good and you should be OK.

You are near bottom of the acceptable range of bow weight...I've had a guy I built arrows for shoot an elk with a 44 lb @ 28 straight limbed longbow- I paired him up with some danish oil soaked cedars and 135 grain Zwickeys to get his arrow weight up to get the maximum energy from the bow and it worked very well- because he did not hit bone.

There's some good advice and some bad advice in this thread because it mirrors life. Some folks know, others think they know, and others just want to 'get in the game'.

Take it for what its worth, trust your feelings, and do what makes you happy, and obviously respect the life of the game you're chasing enough to be honest with yourself at the moment of truth...life's too short, friend.

[Dave2old]

Doeboy wrote: "Are whitetails any less of an animal" than an elk?" In the sense I was talking about, they are in fact on average 3/4 less the animal. The distinction I was making had nothing to do with relative value of an animal's life, but physical size and toughtness and what sort of gear it takes to consistently penetrate and kill them humanely, even with a less-than-perfect shot. I've lived and hunted and guided elk country for nearly 30 years, and it's an unavoidable and far too obsdrvable a truth that All hunters consistently wound and lose way too many elk -- rifles, all types bows, and the worst are blackpowder. Some of this is because some people always shoot first and think later, if at all. but a major cause of the excessive wounding rate on elk by well-intended ethical hunters is optimism that the gear that works well for them on deer will "be enough" for elk as well. Too often, it is not. Consequently, to encourage such optimism is not only disrespectful to our prey, but leads to a lot of disappointment among hunters when they find out the heartbreaking way. Exceptions don't make a rule. If you examine the group of questions Frank asked about -- bow weight, long shooting distance, and a suggestion of light arrows (no mention of broadheads) -- and add them together, we do NOT have a high-odds gear setup for elk. Possible, of course. Something to encourage? No. The good news, even with our disagreements, is that at least we seriously discuss these things and those of us with concerns are allowed (for the most part)to air them for consideration. Meanwhile, the Moon Unit training-wheelers just go glumly along shooting 350-grain toothpics with frail mechanical heads at 300fps at almost any animal they see at any range. THAT is where the majority of elk wounding by bowhunters comes from, not from us.

[Ray Hammond]

As far as distance is concerned- an 800 + lb elk at 30 yards has a larger kill zone than a 150 lb whitetail at 20 yards.What should limit your range is your skill at that distance.

[frank the hunter]

dave2old i rspecet what you say but i am the most ethical hunter you will ever see. i have past on white tails in the 180" were at 20 yards away just because i did not feal good about the shoot. belive me i wood have no problem with taking a 30 yard shoot & hitting the mark, just was not shore of the bow. and for the broad head 2 blade magnus 125 grain with insert total about 150 grains.i wood only take the shoot if the amial is broad side. thanks again everyone & god bless you all.

[T. Downing]

I have two simple rules when it comes to elk killing equipment. First, if you can consistently place 6 arrows in a 8inch paper plate at thirty yards and the elk is broadside and you feel good about it, take the shot. Secondly, a 650+ grain broadhead/arrow combo topped with a single blade broadhead is an incredible killing instrument on an elk. When things go bad, and they will from time to time, a heavy arrow will do the animal justice. I personally believe that a 50 lb bow is a tad to small for killing elk, especially at thirty yards. Now I know of plenty of bowhunters who have killed elk with 50 and less lb bows. Still, elk are larger game and they deserve heavier equipment. If a 50 lb bow is all you can muster, than practice self discipline and keep your shoots to less than twenty yards. T

[Strutter]

I say go get em' Frank and have fun doing it.  If the shot is there, you will know it and take it and I bet will do well.  With the hunting experience you have, you will know if and when the shot is right.  You have all summer to practice and get everything lined out.  Good luck this fall and be sure to get back on here and post some pics.

Rob

[Sharpster]

Originally posted by Dave2old:
 Meanwhile, the Moon Unit training-wheelers just go glumly along shooting 350-grain toothpics with frail mechanical heads at 300fps at almost any animal they see at any range. THAT is where the majority of elk wounding by bowhunters comes from, not from us.

Dave, You know that I have the greatest respect for you and your experience and expertise but, it sounds like that is just what you are encouraging Frank to do?

I have spoken with Frank at length on the phone about this upcoming hunt and I can assure you that he's is a very ethical and experienced hunter with many deer and bear kills. He is very aware of his responsibility and very much an ethical hunter. Frank has a great apreciation of the value of every animal's life. Ask him about letting a PY brown bear walk at less than 10 paces because he wasn't comfortable with the shot presented. He also practices his shooting for too many hours every day and is keenly aware of what his effective range is. This is not a "poke and hope" hunter/shooter.

Frank's motivation in switching to trad gear is not unlike that of many of us "converts". He enjoys the hunt itself as much or more than the kill, he's tired of his training wheels and wants to advance.

After talking to him a few times I can tell you without any reservation that Frank will make an excellant addition to the trad comunity.

Perhaps the answers to his question might have been different if he had asked: Is a 50 lb bow in the hands of a thoroughly experienced hunter/shooter capable of killing an elk at 30 yards?

No disrespect intended,

-Ron

[Brian Krebs]

There is a factor that counts a whole whole lot; and that is the ability to take a shot.
 Oh yeah; there is a whale of a difference between holding back a compound with a release aid; and pulling a trigger... and shooting a traditional bow.
 But the thing that makes the shot perfect is the shooter: over everything.
 Frank has killed a lot of game; turned down shots on game; he knows when to let go of the arrow; and where to aim.
 His chances of 'buck fever' are way less than most people regardless of the weapon used.
 My late Uncle Dan; who was a rifle hunter- once sighted in his gun; and made the foolish mistake of letting me near it. I put a blank round in it; and when he pulled the trigger; the end of that gun went up in the air; and he fell over backwards off the bench he was on. He rarely missed a deer; but it seems he did his shooting with a bit of tension in his system to deal with.
 Frank seems to be able too- to pull off shots on game.
 That means a lot a whole lot.
I once had a neat ambush setup on an elk trail; and as I approached it; an elk walked out in front of me. It was a huge bull. I was totally in the open and he just stared at me. For well over an hour he just stared at me. He finally moved and I had a shot; but I could not pull my bow back. Not even an inch.
 I was a great shot with that recurve and had taken a LOT of animals with it; but I couldn't draw back the bow at all.
 My adrenaline burned me out.
I have taken great shots at close range and far range; but I have missed at 6 feet.
 I think the ability to take a shot at a live animal counts more than a kazillion perfect shots at targets.
 I seem to remember a world champion with a bow that missed a buck completely at 20 yards.
 If you have a 90 pound bow with 900 grain arrows; and can neuter a gnat with it at 50 yards; there is not one bit of guarantee you could hit an elk or a deer at 10 yards.
 Its not about the strength of the bow; the weight of the arrow; the range; as much as it is the ability to make a shot when it counts.
 If Frank has made all the shots he says he has; then I think he is a qualified candidate to shoot a 50 pound bow at an elk.
 NOBODY knows whats going to happen when they shoot 100% of the time; yep 99% perhaps - but not 100%. I often will draw back and then let up and not shoot if I just don't feel the shot is right.
 Then too; I have made some classic misses. I can miss as well as anyone. Not bragging [sic]; just stating the facts.
 What makes me feel qualified to use my bow is my experience; and my ability to shoot; and I am still working on that. I have taken many black bears and still don't believe I am ready for a brown or grizzly bear.
 If Frank knows himself; and when to shoot; and what to aim at; and how sharp to keep his broadheads; then only he knows if he can take a shot; and the bow is enough to take an elk if he does.
 Geesh.

[doeboy]

Pastor Carl summed up what I was trying to say. I thought this sight was all about friendship and a family community? I guess constructive criticism is what you get when you ask the wrong questions….just my 2 cents from New Jersey…..

[Terry Green]

And unfortunately some destructive.

[doeboy]

Agreed!

[Steertalker]

There is one thing I would like to add to this discussion for yall to ponder:  Frank's 50 lb bow is probably more lethal at 30 yds than at 3 yds.

Why???  Because from 0 yds to say....10 yds his arrows are still recovering from paradox which will greatly affect penetration.  By the time his arrow gets out to 30 yds it should have stabilized and should be sailing along quite nicely and will blow through an elk easily, assuming a broadside hit and a 2 bladed BH.  Of course this is also contigent upon his setup being well tuned.  Add to this the fact that an elk at close range is more likely to react at the instant of the shot than if it were farther away.  So...an arrow recovering from paradox + a moving tensed up elk = poor penetration.  And that applies to any weight bow!!!  

So what the heck am I try'n to say???  Let's say...hypothetically....that if Frank is good enough to make say....a 100 yd shot on an elk with his 50 lb longbow and he had to arc his arrow through the sky such that by the time the arrow reached the elk it was at a 45 degree angle and was more or less falling out of the sky at terminal velocity and, most importantly, the nock end of his arrow was following directly behind the point end....I guarantee you it will zip right through the rib cage of that elk...rib or no ribs!!!!  Excuse me please...but I think that was the gist of his original question....whether or not his setup was sufficient for a 30 yd shot on a elk.  Nothing at all to do with the whys, wherefores or ethics taking such a shot.  That's his business.

Whadaya think???

Brett

[JC]

Good post Brett

[DeerSpotter]

Very will said Brett,

If a man is not ruled by his heart, his head will not help him !

Pastor Carl

[J-dog]

Pastor Carl,

I have never read such a good post as your earlier post on this thread. You made a great point we should all live by. "I think we should evaluate ourselves, and then looked down at our feet, and see whose shoes we are wearing."

May I use that at my fire station?? (seriously)I want to post it on the door to my office!

Brett your point is very good as well.

Past that I will stay out o this one! it is an educational thread though so I hope it doesn't get whacked???? perty please. LOL

Jason

[DeerSpotter]

You are more than welcome to Jason, and I have to agree with you, this is an educational thread, both about people and their convictions, and their commitment to the animals they hunt.  But hopefully both of these lessons come together and gives them more understanding about who created both.  Every personality, and every talent, is given to us for reason, may we accomplish it.

Pastor Carl

[Mark Albrecht]

I'm lost here can soime one explain to me how limiting your shot distance is some how pushing someone into using a compound?

Isn't that a personal choice?  Isn't that what I keep reading it is up to the shooter to decide(what a an effective range is)?  If that is so then so is choice of weapon.  A 50# bow can kill from much farther than 30 yards.

Folks with lots of experience have said limit yourself to 20 yards, other have said shoot whatever distance you want and somehow this has become a discussion on pushing someone into a compound?  Who cares?  Use a rifle it has an even longer range, or choose to limit your range - all a personal choice.  If frank looks at all this and chooses a compound - its his choice, if the chooses to go traditional and limit his shots to 40? 30? 20? yds. it's his choice.  He asked for opinions and got many now it is his choice.