Super glue skins or not?

[Stinger]

I have read maybe 40 threads on skinning a bow on here and finished applying the skins on my bow 2 nights ago.  I finished trimming up the edges last night and am now contemplating the finish.  The 'how to' says to apply 2 coats of thin super glue before putting the final finish on.  Some other posts indicate that there were 'problems' with super glue, but I couldn't find anything that said what those problems were.  So what is the real story, or is it just a matter of preference?  Why use the super glue first instead of going straight to a spray poly or true oil finish?  

In the end, I don't want a gloss finish so the final 2 coats were going to be a satin finish.  Does the super glue really seal the skin to the limb or is it there to give it that 'under glass' look?

[vanillabear?]

[PEARL DRUMS]

Ive never read about super glue sealing them either? I have read to super glue the edges to ensure they stay down before finishing them.

[rainman]

Super glue can get white streaks under your finish.  I just use Tru-oil or Tung oil and I can make the skin look like glass after about 12 coats.  After the first 3 coats start sanding between coats with 120 and this will get rid of the pieces of skin sticking up.  I have a friend who likes the texture of rough skin on his bow, I don't.

[PEARL DRUMS]

Good tip rainman...I need to lock that in the memory bank.

[Eric Krewson]

I am sure Rainman means very lightly sand. 120 is pretty course, I use 300.  Whether I sand or not depends on the skins, timber rattler, yes, western diamond back, sometimes, copperhead, never. It is easy to sand the color off a patch of skin.

[Stinger]

Here is the link to the 2005 skinning how to that discusses using super glue.  

 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000062

I have used tru oil before when refinishing glass limbs (and 300 grit paper in between coats).  It came out nice, but too glossy and it's a lot of work.  Is there any reason why a poly spray won't work as well?  I don't mind the effort with tru oil, but I have 3 cans of poly laying around not doing anything.

[Pat B]

A few years ago lots of folks were using super glue with snake skins. After a while some were experiencing cracking of the skins and I assume because the super glue was not flexible enough. Any standard finish will work well for skins. If you like a glass smooth finish you have to build up multible layers of finish. I prfer to use 5 or 6 coats of Tru-Oil and prefer the feel of the skins on the back of the bow and not a glass smooth surface.

[Art B]

I lightly sand the skins if needed and apply a coat of the Tite-bond glue over that. Then lightly sand that and then Tru-oil. Never a problem......Art

[Stinger]

Pat, thanks, that was what I was looking for.  Realizing the original 'how to' was written 6 years ago, I figured that there was likely more experience out there now with the technique.  What you say backs up what Rainman says.  I also am not looking for a glass smooth finish as I have seen some skinning jobs that were like that and the skins looked fake to me.  I guess I'll try the Tru-Oil.

Art - Since the TB dries to a yellowish tint, wouldn't that affect the color of the skins?

[Art B]

Originally posted by Stinger:
 
Art - Since the TB dries to a yellowish tint, wouldn't that affect the color of the skins? [/QB]

Not that I'll noticed.........Art

[Pat B]

I usually do the same as Art with the TBIII and never noticed a color change but I use only a very thin layer. I started doing this on a sinew backed bow to help increase the water proofing for the sinew. I add a thin layer of TBIII over the back of the sinew/hide glue, let it set then add the skins. When they are dry I add the thin layer of TBIII over that then the Tru-Oil.

[Stinger]

Pat, Art - so what is the purpose of putting the coat of TBIII on?  It doesn't make sense that the skins would need waterproofing.  Why not just go straight to the Tru-oil, or poly, or whatever finish?

[Art B]

The glue tacks down the edges of the scale sockets (this is what gives the skins their rough texture). This produces a much better and smoother finish with less coats of finish........Art

[Pat B]

Snake skins will shead water but if you drop a dried skin in water it will soak it up like a sponge. I use it for this reason. I know the Tru-Oil will help in the waterproofing but this is just a little extra protection for me.   Also like Art says it helps to smooth out the shin before adding the finish.

[Stinger]

OK, thanks guys!  I wish I had not removed the tape from the edges of the limbs last night, but I will just have to be very careful applying the TBIII in a thin layer and keep it on the skin and off the edges.

BTW, did you use wipe on Tru-Oil or spray on?  I have only used the wipe on in the past.  I also assume that after the 5th or 6th layer of that I can apply a satin poly over the top to cut the shine down?

[T Folts]

I talked to a couple of know boyers at the Kzoo show and what I got from it was the clean the skin real well after applying them to the bow, like rubbing them down with Denatures alcohol a few times and lightly sanding or wire brushing them between the alcohol wipes, you need to get all the oil out of the skins and real clean from what I understand. One bowyer said all they use as a top coat is Thunderbird.

[T Folts]

Also tru-oil works very well without much risk of messing the skins up.

[Art B]

The key to a nice smooth finish more than anything else is light sanding (I use very well worn 180 grit) when needed. Smear (with fingers) a light coat of TB glue to tack any fluff back down. Light sanding again before appling a finish. I used both Tru-oil and spray urethane independently or one over the other......Art

[Stinger]

OK, I'll give that a try.  It just seems strange to sand the skins down.  Would that be against the grain of the skin (against the grain of the way the scales lay when they were there)?  I would be afraid of taking all the color out as Eric said.  The skins are Eastern diamondback BTW.  I thought that it was the variance in the skin that is left once the scales are removed that gives the skin the color.  The fluff as you call it.