Straight limbs on board bow?

[Dave Thaxton]

I'm preparing to start my 2nd redoak board bow. The first one took on a fair amount of set(3"). How do I keep the limbs straight or is that even possible. I'm really hoping for a straight limbed Hill type 66 to 68" and finishing out aound 50#'s.
Please give me some ideas to accomplish this.

Thanks, Dave

[NTD]

Set happens!  But 3" is a quite a bit.  There are several reasons for a bow to take on excessive set.

-Poor Tillering
-Underbuilt bows, such as not making the bow wide enough or long enough.
-not lilely with a red oak board but wood that isn't dry enough.

If you can post a few pics of your bow.  Unbraced side profile, front view and a full draw, we might be able to give you some pointers for that particular bow.

[okie64]

Very careful and patient tillering making sure that no part of the limb is overstrained. I havent worked with redoak that much but I would think it would be very difficult to make a redoak board bow that didnt take on any set at all. I have heated reflex into hickory bows after I got done tillering them and got the limbs back straight. Never tried it on redoak, so I'm not sure if that would work or not.

[PEARL DRUMS]

Glue a hickory back on it while its under 2-3" of reflex. It will likely be quite straight after shoot in and tillering.

[Dave Thaxton]

With it being my first it was undoubtedly poor and hasty tillering. I have since made myself a tillering gizmo and am looking forward to trying again. Thanks for the info gentlemen.

Dave

[NTD]

@ okie and PD
Things like glued in reflex and heat treated reflex shouldn't be used as bandaids to reduce set from poor tiller IMO.  They should be used as accesories to increase performance once a person has knowledge on how to properly design and tiller a bow.  You are not doing yourself any favors if you are hiding excessive set with heat treating and glued in relfex.

[PEARL DRUMS]

I have never made a red oak board bow that shot in and stayed straight, even with extremely patient tillering and exercise. Come to think of it, I have never even seen a pic posted of a red oak board bow that was straight without some help from another material or heat. I would like to see one after a few thousand shots stay straight. And to say a backing, or heat is to hide poor tillering knowledge/ability is dead wrong and offensive IMO.

[okie64]

NTD, he asked for ways to keep the limbs straight. I didnt mean to heat-treat it to hide poor tillering. I have built hickory bows that took an inch or so of set but after heating an inch or two of reflex in the difference in the speed of the bow was very noticeable.

[NTD]

Sure the original question was about keeping a bow straight.  But 3" of set is from a design flaw, not because the bow was unbacked.  You and Okie jumped to Heat treat and back it.  This will not fix his problem.  Once he understands how to tiller the bow for minimal set and THEN adds heat or glued in relfex then it's a win.  Until then adding heat or glued in reflex is only a bandaid.

You are right, a redoak or any wood bow without induced or natural relfex will experience string follow.  Like I said set happens.  I don't deny that.  But the amount of set is the first issue, and it appears Dave understands that from his follow up post.

"And to say a backing, or heat is to hide poor tillering knowledge/ability is dead wrong and offensive IMO."

How funny, I never said that backing and heating is to hide poor tillering knowledge or ability.  

I said it SHOULDN'T be used for that  

[okie64]

Like I said before I havent worked with redoak much so I guess I shouldve stayed out of this one. For all I knew 3" of set with redoak could have been normal.

[NTD]

Okie,

I'm not trying to be an ass and I'm sorry if I'm coming across that way.  Heat treating and backing are all very good tools.  But 3" of set is only normal if you are underbuilding your bows.  One wood shouldn't take more set than another by default...but they might take more set than another wood if they aren't designed according to the abilities of that wood.

Dave may be well served to back or heat treat but he's only going to get the full benefits if he learns how to minimize set by designing and tilering properly.  That's all I was trying to do was give him a fuller picture of his problem.

[PEARL DRUMS]

I dont know how well Dave tillered his bow, first one or not. I do know that a back will reduce set on a properly tillered bow. Thats what he asked, thats why I said it.

[hardwaymike]

NTD, if you re read your first post then you will see that you said exactly that. Weather it is what you meant or not is besides the case, you said it,lol.

[NTD]

Hardway...maybe you should re-read my post

"Things like glued in reflex and heat treated reflex shouldn't be used as bandaids to reduce set from  poor tiller  IMO. They should be used as accesories to increase performance once a person has knowledge on how to properly design and tiller a bow. You are not doing yourself any favors  if  you are hiding excessive set with heat treating and glued in relfex."

They are called qualifiers Mike.

PD said that I claimed heat and glue relfex are to hide poor craftsmanship...I clearly DID NOT say that.

[John Scifres]

Please give me some ideas to accomplish this.

Assuming a 28" draw and a 8-10" non-bending handle area, you probably need to make your red oak bow 72" or so to achieve something that looks like a Hill bow.  you'll still need to go 1-3/4"-2" wide I bet.  The other alternative is make it thinner and wider at 68".  I'd guess 3" at the fades will do it.  You won't get a Hill style look though.

An even better alternative is to use a wood more in tune with that style and your goals.  Red oak is fine for wide flatbows but not deep core longbows unless it is really long.  Even then, you will get 2-3" of set I would wager.  3" isn't bad for your first bow by the way.

[PEARL DRUMS]

I think what this boils down to is the fact that after you gave your two cents which is worth as much as anybody elses two cents, you "corrected" others. Thats the part I didnt care for. Maybe it would be okay to just throw your change in the pile with everybody else's and call it good? Let the person asking the question do his/her own sifting. Your knowledge on bow building is a great help Nate, but please dont discredit others in the meanwhile. There is always more than one way to perceive a question, and certainly more than one way to build a bow "right".

[John Scifres]

Guys, take yor bickering to PMs. You aren't helping here.

[Dave Thaxton]

Didn't intend to throw rocks at a hornets nest and get things stirred up...let's make sure I'm on the same page as you fellas... do not under build bow, proper tillering and exercise, add backing at 2" or so at reflex and/or heat in some reflex...understand that there MAY be SOME set even if all this is done correctly... sound about right?

My first board bow shoots well, however the amount of set is what I'm trying to eliminate and keep the straight (as possible) limb profile. Thanks to all for your suggestions...now let's all take a breath    

Dave

[PEARL DRUMS]

Nothing you did Dave. My sincere apologies for the bickering, its well out of character for me. Your list above is dead on. And yes, you will get some set from an unbacked bow built "perfectly".

[NTD]

Sounds good!  And John was right about a first bow being pretty danged good with only 3" of set.  My first bow was probably closer to 6"