Thinking about trying a splice?

[SEMO_HUNTER]

I've got a good stave with a real bad ugly spot dead center of the stave. I've studied it from every angle and there's just not any good way to work around it. I've decided that it's too good for firewood, but that center section has got to go. I'm thinking about cutting that 6" section out and splicing the two halves together, which are each still going to be at least 36" long. I'm sure that is plenty to do a splice and have plenty left over since I make my longbows around 64" now with good success.

Any of you all with experience splicing want to offer some advice, tips, links to good info, ect. on this subject?
I need some grey bearded advice on this venture cause I've never attempted such a project before.    

One last question.......After the splicing, is it ok to go ahead and put it on the caul to add my curves to it as long as I don't heat the mid section where the splice is?

Thanks!

[Living_waters]

Semo I have been cleaning up two small mulberry limbs I considered using my precious supply of sinew on to make a couple of short bows. My neighbor talked some good sense into me and told me I should make one good bow instead of a couple questionable bows. He suggested cutting and fitting the handle splice then boiling the splices, then forcing them together while they are hot and plyable. He just uses TB3 for glue, but he says after it drys a couple of days he puts a small hard wood pin all the way through the center of the splice from the side. I havent tried it, but after seeing the nice piece of ERC in the other thread I think I will, because it reminded me why I was saving my sinew.

[ranger 3]

I have made a couple and it is pretty easy. Just make sure the two pieces lay flat when you lay it out. After you cut them I use urac 185 because it has a gap filling capabilities. It will have a wrap on it so it won't be seen. You can also put in some reflex when you glue it up.
 

[bowhntineverythingnh03743]

Gary Davis uses the urac and said in his self bow DVD that you can still heat the bow the same way  because the urac is waterproof... He states that there is no difference between the two when he is completed and they shoot just like a one piece bow

[SEMO_HUNTER]

Thanks for the info guys.

Jeff- I had actually thought about the dowl pin idea. I remember reading about a guy on TG that was replacing the handle wrap on a bow that was made years ago and he found out that it was a splice bow with dowel pins through the handle splice. He said it shot great and had shot great for years and he had no idea it was a 2 piece bow. That's a great idea, and I think I will incorporate that into my splice. I'd also thought about a white oak or red oak lam over the splice while I'm at it. With those 2 added safety measures I don't think it should ever come apart.

Ranger- That looks real nice. I can only hope that mine would come out as good as the one you have pictured.
One question about that. How do you chase your ring through the splice section? Or do you just chase a ring from the splice end out to the tip?

Justin- I've heard that they actually shoot better sometimes because you can somewhat control the grain when you splice? I guess I'll find out. LOL

If this turns out nice it may either be my swap bow or I may have to keep it for myself?
Afterall, aren't we supposed to step outside our comfort zone for the bow swap build? By trying something totally new.

[ranger 3]

Semo, the handle really don't bend so there is no need to chase a ring. This bow was one that one limb broke so I took a piece of scrap and made another limb and spliced them together. I am sure you will turn out another fine bow.

[Walt Francis]

Chris, Here is a link to a splice along that Terry posted about five or six years back:  http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000045  .  I have used his method on over a dozen bows using either resorcinol or Urac 185.  I pinned the handles on the first couple of bows I spliced, but have since found it is unnecessary.

Here is a picture of three sets of billets curing by the fire, that I glued up last month (sorry for the poor quality).

 

[SourOwl]

SEMO - these guys are spot-on!  I have spliced several bows the way described, using the hard-wood dowel and without.... never had a failure.  

For uniformity of the limbs, I actually  like spliced bows better'n full stave ones.  Given a choice, even though there's more steps to completion, I'd use billets every time.  This helps to use questionable staves too.  Mike

[Art B]

Just remember Chris, the center of the splice may or may not be the center of your bow/handle. Leave the billets a little long to start with and after glue-up just lay it out like a regular stave to be on the safe side.

Where's your arrow pass going to be in relation to the center of the bow?

I rough shape both billets close to a floor tillered stage before glue-up. This allows me to match the surface planes of both limbs right out in front of the handle fades. If you misalign these planes then it's like having a twist in the handle. Gotta get it right the first time.......Art

[SEMO_HUNTER]

Wow, ask and ye shall recieve! Thanks Guys!

Lot's of great info here!
 
Walt- I did come acrossed AZStickman's website when I did a search and read it thoroughly before I posted here. I'm glad you mentioned it because that's the way I was going to do it depending on what you Gents had to say about splicing.
Crappy pic or not, that's a happy scene right there!    

I got a few pics for y'all.

Here's what I started with, and I already cut one end off before I realized that I didn't get any before pics, so you'll just have to use your imagination. LOL
Please pardon my own crappy pics, these were taken with my cell phone.

 

Here's the problem area in question and you can see that these 2 major anomolies didn't leave me a whole lot of choice. If it were just 1 knot I would work around it, but 2 knots spaced apart like they are.......I just couldn't imagine any good way to get through there.
 

Here's the first half peeled and chased down to the first ring. It's not the one I'm going to keep, but I usually chase the first one I come to just to see how the grain turns and what I'm dealing with, then I'll move on from there.
 
 

More to come later...........to be continued.

[SEMO_HUNTER]

Originally posted by Art B:
Just remember Chris, the center of the splice may or may not be the center of your bow/handle. Leave the billets a little long to start with and after glue-up just lay it out like a regular stave to be on the safe side.

Where's your arrow pass going to be in relation to the center of the bow?

I rough shape both billets close to a floor tillered stage before glue-up. This allows me to match the surface planes of both limbs right out in front of the handle fades. If you misalign these planes then it's like having a twist in the handle. Gotta get it right the first time.......Art

I've been wondering about ya Art, I know your a splicer cause you had mentioned some billets in one of our conversations. I haven't seen ya around here for a few days.

I usually go dead center of the bow, for the center of my grip, then the arrow goes right above my knuckle. So just guessing off of that, I'd say the center of my arrow is about 1" to 1.5" above actual center.
You make a good point about matching the planes up, I had wondered about that but figured I would work through that stage when I got there. It makes sense to get each billet worked down to nearly a bow blank before glue up, thanks for bringing that up.
I'll need all of y'alls help with this as I go along. This is completely uncharted territory for me, but it's exciting also.

[John Cooper]

Actually, Gary Davis uses resorcinol.  After it cures, it's perfectly alright to steam and use a heat gun on it.  To get the "plane" right, flatten the bottoms of the billets parallel to the back of the bow using a belt sander.  That will give you a solid surface to use your bandsaw.  You don't want it rocking back and forth.  If it doesn't have a perfect fit, resorcinol's great at filling small gaps.  Here's a template that I made up for just this event:

 https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0ByVgFy-gsQnrZDBlZmI1YmUtMjA2ZS00MWI1LWFiM2YtMWM0YWE2ZWUwYTdj&hl=en&authkey=CJnVkxw

[Art B]

"So just guessing off of that, I'd say the center of my arrow is about 1" to 1.5" above actual center."

Here, the center of you splice can't be the center of your bow. You wouldn't want any joint showing above your leather grip, now would we    ...........Art

[Walt Francis]

First, here is a picture of the critter in the upper right hand corer of my previous picture:

 

Here is a visual of what Art is referring to making the bottom of the tree the center of the handle.  I didn’t want the big knot hole in this stave to be in the middle to upper third of bow limb.  
 

 

So cut the stave in half and reversed the knothole closer to the handle:

 

Here it is redue in size, cut out and ready for the glue up:

 


 

In addition, especially if you have narrowed the limbs, be sure to align the tips with the handle (both before and after the glue up).  I use a piece of B50 with a large castle nut on one end and a clamp on the other.

 

[SEMO_HUNTER]

Thanks for the visuals Walt, that really helps alot to be able to see some examples to go along with the advice.
BTW- Thanks for the pics of the Goat, man them are some tuff buggers to go after ain't they?
I've only watched it on TV hunting channels, but they live on the edge of sheer cliffs!!
How the heck a guy could ever get close to one is beyond me?

I got what your saying Art, my splice will need to be low enough that my handle wrap will cover it up so it needs to be slightly off center. I'll figure that in when I lay it out.

[SEMO_HUNTER]

Art- Look what I found on the stump end of the other billet when I cleaned the bark and sapwood off.
This will work out perfect, the knot will be just above the fade and shouldn't pose a problem, but add a little character. There Osage fairy has smiled upon me.    

 


The direction of the arrow will be my splice and I'll butt it up with the larger ring end of the other billet.
Does that sound like a good plan to you all?
Seems logical to me.

I'm going to chase my rings and narrow my staves down and get them prepped for gluing this evening hopefully. Then tomorrow I'll lay out my splices and cut them in. I don't have any of the glue you all mentioned, all I've got is TBII so unless I can use that, I'll have to order some of the glue you all have mentioned.

Where do you guys buy your glue from?

[Art B]

You don't want to use that TB glue Chris. I've used two-epoxy (it can't take any heat unlike the urac) a number of times without any problems but I would recommend you order some urac-185 from Three Rivers. You can order straight from Nelsons Paint but shipping and wait time is kinda out of line IMO. 3R's cost more but shipping is reasonable. So you'll end up paying about the same either way you go but you'll get the urac way quicker from 3R's.

[SEMO_HUNTER]

That's probably what I'll do Art, I need some anyway for other stuff like backings, handle overlays and such. I just hate waiting ya know?
3Rivers is fairly quick at getting my stuff out to me though, it shouldn't take more than 3 days to get here. What's the rush anyway right? The billets ain't going anywhere.

[Living_waters]

Just ordered some this morning and after comparing shipping charges from a couple of places 3rivers was the cheapest.

[don s]

i just wanted to show a pic of an old indian archery flatbow that was given to me. the pic shows that it is a spliced bow. i also thought you might be interested in the way the handle is pinned with a dowel. the bow is lemon wood(degame). don