Bow form

[stringstretcher]

What would be the best, but yet cheapest way to build a form to glue up simple flat bow, howard hill style bows using hickory backing and osage laminations.  I don't have the money for the high pressure hoses and forms, so was just looking for some advice to make me a couple of "basement bandit bows".  These bows would not be over 55 lbs and not longer than 66".  Any suggestions and help would be appreciated

[bjansen]

Cheapest way would be to use a rubber band clamping form.  Take a yellow pine 2x8, drill a bunch of 1/2" holes, insert dowel rods (to creat spots to wrap your rubber bands around).

To get cheap, heavy duty rubber bands cut up some old bike innertubes to create long strips that can be wrapped around the dowel rods over your glued up laminations.

Good luck

[stringstretcher]

When you are glueing up totaly flat laminations, should there be a pressure strip or some type of "mound" over the flat strips to keep from the rubber pulling down more on the edges than in the center?

[Art B]

How many Osage lams are you talking about Charles? Full length lams or halfs? Never built one like that myself, but if I were to, I believe I would get the lams and handle glued up, then just add some perry reflex using the boo backing

Hill style bows reflex starting at the handle, so a simple center post and elevated end post should work fine.......Art

[stringstretcher]

Not sure on the quantity of lams yet, not knowing what kind of poundage I can get from what.  But what I intend to do is build a Howard Hill style, "sting follow" bow that is dead in the hand, smooth, and quiet.  The only materials I will be using is Hickory for backing, and bamboo flooring and osage for laminations. The bakcing is full length, but the lams with be spliced in the handle area.  And I want to try a couple with a belly lam over the handle, not just a handle glue on, although that is where I will probably start out doing Art.

I built a form like Dean Torges uses, and have glued up a couple with it, but actually did not like it.  After wrapping the rubber bands and letting it cure, they all came out with some dips and dives in the bends as well as some twist.  Now this was with a bamboo back.

I have a lot of lumber that is great for lams, but no osage for full lenth staves, so I want to get something out of them beside the billets that I can.  And I have lots of Hickory (72 to be exact) full length strips 1 1/2 wide x 3/16 already ripped out along with 52 36 inch long 3/16 thick and 1 1/2 wide osage and maybe 2 dozen bamboo flooring lams the same deminsions.  I guess I am looking for the simplest, best bow I can make from all this.

[7 Lakes]

I'm going to try sharing a album from my photo bucket.  Not sure this is going to work but it will show you a simple form.  I'm gluing up a deflex/reflex bow but you can easily adjust the blocks for a straight limbed bow.

 http://s146.photobucket.com/albums/r243/7Lakes/Tradgang%20pics/Form%20All%20Wood/?albumview=slideshow

[7 Lakes]

Ok, it worked.  Just a few notes.
The pictures are out of order but they make a decent slide show so I'm leaving everything alone.

The yellow rulers are used as pressure plates they are almost wide enough to be perfect. Purchased from Lowes.  

The markings on the base 2x6 are to be ignored for this set up.  They are my markings for another project.

[stringstretcher]

Thanks for the slide show.

[Roy from Pa]

I would like to try the same thing stringstretcher. I use a form like Dean does, but I totaly pad the top and bottom of the bow when gluing up.

[stringstretcher]

I thank you for your form video also Roy.  that is a neat setup for sure.  I guess with a pressure strip in the bottom (thin aluminum) and one on the top (thin Aluminum) it would hold it shape a lot better.  But I am going to build something that when its clamped (rubber banded) down, it has no where to go.  And doing a flat limb bow, this to me is more critical to eliminate limb twist.  JMO

[SEMO_HUNTER]

I plan on doing something similar Charles using my new caul I just built, but it's got reflex/deflex built into it. I'm just kinda fond of that style I guess? At some point I'd like to make a nice Osage with bamboo backing when I get these old grey beards brains picked clean.      

[Lee Slikkers]

Me too Semo, but I don't take notes I just "bookmark" everything and print it out when I start a particular project    :D

I'd like to make up a boo-osage lam at some point as well but I need to do more research and understand if these projects use strictly dimensional material (osage) or if folks "simply" glue up a prepared Boo laminate on a piece of thinned stave type material...

[Art B]

A lot to be said for that style bow Charles. Using that style as intended has benefits. When Hill recommended a little string follow be built into bows, most all bows back then didn't have cut-in windows. The real purpose of a string follow bow, IMHO, is to give an arrow a little easier send-off because an around-the-handle bow creates greater arrow paradox. And they used low stretch string material like linen which made  a softer send-off even more important........Art

[SEMO_HUNTER]

I figured that I'd just send one of my skinny staves through the planer? Probably flatten it somewhat on the belt sander first so it don't hang up in the planer, then send it on through?
Never tried it, but it should work I'd think.

Charlie, those pics that Roy has of his bamboo/sage glue up is what I've seen the most of, or the flat aluminum form that Dick uses. If you wanted it perfectly flat take note of what Dick uses. If you want a bit of curve to it then compare notes from Roy and 7Lakes info, cause they both look good to me. Then what do I know, I'm just offering my opinion that's not really based on experience, only boo bow envy.   :D

[fujimo]

take a strip of styrofoam insulation, about an inch thick- put that on the face of your caul, when you band it down, the nodes, and the radius of the boo will press into the foam, and give better all round support.

 i usually take some sandpaper and wrap it around a sutably matching round object, and sand a light trough in the foam, so the boo sits in there better, in my dry run i kinda press down a bit harder in the node areas,
 so that i get the node imprint in the foam,
this prep only takes a few minutes, and when i do the glue up- get it all lined up, and voila- perfect glue lines- i have never had a glue line fail using this method.
i use urac, and i prep everything with acetone, after roughing up the faces with an old sawzall blade.
g'luck
wayne

[eflanders]

For a hickory & osage laminated bow, just get yourself a nice straight 2"x 4" by 6' long board. Drill 11/32" diameter holes every 2" along the length of the board, pound in 5" long x 3/8" wood dowels into those holes.  Varnish or shellac the board and dowels.  Then wax it with car wax. Get yourself an old tire innertube at the tire store and cut it lengthwise into one very long continuous strip approximately 1-1/2' wide. You now have a HH style form that will cost you no more than $20 even if you have to buy a new innertube.  
  Assuming you are a 28" draw, cut three lams 1-1/2 wide by 1/8" thick by 72" long. Once glued and tillered this will get you a 40 - 50# bow depending on how wide you keep the limbs, tips, etc.  Good luck!

[stringstretcher]

Thanks everyone.  Art?  Based on what you are telling me, would there be a better profile to use for my bow?  When the bow is finished, I want it to look like more along the lines of a glass glue up, no rounded belly, just plain flat limbs and use the taper to get my poundage and see what happens.  But when all is said and done, I would like the bow to "stand straight" when unstrung and not have a lot of set or string follow unbraced.  Maybe I am just over killing the idea.  So any suggestions would be great.

[Art B]

Set and string follow aren't the same Charles. Here's how Tim Baker described the two:

"Set: Permanent deflection of the limbs toward the archer, resulting from compression of belly wood beyond its elastic limit. Set and string follow are not the same..

String Follow: Where by set, design, or deflex in the stave, an unbraced bows tips rest some distance bellyward of the back. Usually the result of set."

So if you want your bow to stand straight then it wouldn't be considered a string follow design. That would have to be designed in or by default.

There's trade offs no matter which way you turn Charles. And most times it just comes down to personal prefences........Art

[Art B]

Here's one design that I think will work good for you needs Charles.

Deflex in the handle to where the limbs are back about 1". Flip the outer limbs from mid-limb to tips to where you have a spring back reflex of about 1" to 1 1/2". After break-in you should have relatively straight limbs with a little string follow.

Deflex allows for a little more physical weight in the handle/fades which provides extra stability. Longer fades will allow for a lam run-up. Overall design allows for more physical weight. This design also allows for longer draw lengths vs bow length.

Biggest problems with these types of bows is that they're just to light IMO. So a little extra weight is always a plus........Art

[Roy from Pa]

Too light should work well for an ole timer from WV:)