Perry Reflex Boo Backed Hickory build along

[Living_waters]

Well after researching until my head hurts here is the product of that headache. And after reading all I can on the perry style reflex bow, one thing I found is that other than Dan Perry very few people can agree on what exactly is a Perry reflex. So for this build and that in mindI decided to go with Tim Bakers info from TBB3.
So first thing we need to do is order some Bamboo.    
Now that we have the boo we need to prepare it. You can get it all ready to glue, but I am to cheap for that. I prefer it to look like this.   For backing, all that you need to  do is flatten the back and thin it to the desired thickness. I use a belt sander and a micrometer, you can use what ever method you have at your disposal from a scraper to a jionter. Some people like to sand it until it is knife edged. This works if the boo is the right size, but mine wasn't After it is flattened I lay out the bow and on the back with a pencil and band saw it out. For this bow I went with a 66" NTN 1 7/16" wide ten inches out from center then tapered to 3/8" at the tips.Now that it is sawed out, it can be tapered. I was shooting for 1/8" at center tapering to 1/16" at the tips. Mine ended up a little thicker because sanding it to my desired thickness could not be done and maintain my width at the fades. Here is the results at the tip.  

Next is to cut out the bows belly. For this I used a 1 1/2 x 1 hickory board. Sawed the thickness to 9/16", 7" from center I taper the thickness to 3/8" at the tip. By doing this you end up with a 14" handle area. By using a 12" handle this allows the fades to start 1" before the actual handle, this keeps the stress from popping the handle off.    

Eyes are getting heavy, I will finish this in the morning.

[AKmud]

Looking great so far!  Thanks for taking the time to put this together.    

[Living_waters]

A little info about the lay out of the backing. Some people say that the nodes need to be symmetrical at the tips, meaning that when you lay it out you keep the nodes equal distance from each end. It is said that this prevents the chance of hinging close to the tips. From my experiences it is just about aesthetics and symmetry. Most bamboo the distance between nodes is not uniform, so if you make them symmetrical at the tips, then usually they are not at the fades. I have had more trouble with nodes that are midlimb where the greatest tension is. But that said I still go for symmetry at the tips, the rest of the nodes are not that noticeable if they are off. So with this thought I pay greater attention when thinning my bamboo and keep it as thin as possible at those midlimb nodes.

Another thing I like to do is cut out both backing and belly to shape and match them as close to each other as possible. This results in a better glue up. A spot in the backing can cause a void if you are wrapping the bow.

With everything cut and sanded next step is to build the form that will actually put the perry reflex in the bow. I chose to glue everything at once, handle and tips are glued along with the laminations. I cut blocks 1/2 inch thicker than my handle thickness. These will support the handle area of the bow and allow enough clearance for wrapping.    
Make sure the blocks are close to the handle and symmetrical from center. if they are off they will effect the glue up and one limb will have a different reflex than the other one. Next I cut blocks to support the tips, for this build I made them 2 1/2" taller than the center support blocks, with the top tapered so the tips set flat on the blocks. I also make sure both tips stop at the same spot on the blocks, if not it would cause a difference of reflex in the two limbs.
As you can see in the picture I have everything laid out to do a complete mock up of the glue up, right down to the wrapping and setting in the hot box. I use Urac on bamboo and it doesn't need heat to cure but I believe it does better if it is heat cured. if you don't have a hot box, some pink 1" Styrofoam, a can of expanding foam for glue and a roll of Reynolds wrap makes a good hot box just add a couple of 100watt bulbs. That pink outhouse looking thing in the back ground has lasted for over 2 years and I may have 10 bucks in it.
After the mock up groove all mating surfaces with a toothing plane or you can do what I do. Put a bimetal sawzall blade in the vise and use it to groove everything. Flatten mating surface where the tips are to be glued if you are gluing them up at this point. They can be added later if you wish.  

Now it is time for the glue up, some people tape off the areas that they don't want glue on. but I am some what a slob and don't tape. All the surfaces will be reduced with the exception of the boo back. and with the rind on Urac doesn't adhere well with it. make sure to wipe everything down with acetone before you apply the glue, especially any oily woods. I am using coco on the handle and it is extremely oily I almost scrub it with acetone. This will allow the urac to do what it was designed to do. I have heard some say Urac is not that good on boo, but I found it is more in the prep than the glue, TB3 works good if prepared right, Urac has more gap filling properties and makes up for some poor craftsmanship but will not make up for all poor practices.
I wrap mine bows with inner tube after they are glued and stacked. masking tape the ends so they dont slip when wrapping them. I begin at the handles and use clamps to add a little extra pressure at the ends because this will be a stressed point when it is drawn into reflex.  
Next is to wrap the rest of the bow and draw it into reflex, this is the meat of the perry style reflex, simple in concept but intricate in its physics.  
Next step is to cook it at 160 degrees for about 6 hrs    
I let mine cool over night after I remove them, this gives them a little more curing time and lets the internal temp equalize before you began working it. One piece of advice, wear gloves if you wrap one, urac seepage makes razor sharp fins that will slice your hands like razor blades.

[Living_waters]

Here it is unwrapped and cleaned up.   [IM[G]http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p86/2manydogs_photos/DSC00518.jpg[/IMG]
Next I cut the handle fades  
Here is where I messed up, I left it on the long string too long. the way the entire limb is reflexed on the long string will not stress the outer limb as much as a short string does, so the result is a mid to outer limb over worked. So when you go to a short string you will have to drop a bunch of poundage to catch up. Here I should have been on a short string  
This is what it looks like when you do go to a short string     Out limbs are out of balance with this style of reflex and hard to recover.
Before I shape the handle I like to shoot it in, usually 50 shots or so. I dont know if this actually helps or it is just because I like to shoot    Any way here is the first quiver at 20 yrds with no arrow rest cut, not bad.  

[Living_waters]

Sorry for the broken code, i was working on a public network that was resetting every 3 minutes. Here are the repaired links  
 

[Living_waters]

I cut the arrow rest 1 1/8" above center and in 1/4" from center  

After everything is roughed in with files I begin sanding with 120 grit, then 320 and finally 500 grit. After all the scratches are sanded out I burnish it with a glass wine bottle, this puts a nice hard almost polished finish on the bare wood  
Now its time to remove the rind from the back of the bow. some people scape it off but I don't like that method it leaves nicks in the power fibers that are just below the rind and that is what is the tension bearing property of boo, when you nick these fibers you are breaking or starting a weak place for them to break and possible bow failure.  

Now for the finish, I was going to do some fancy airbrush work but after struggling extra long tillering this bow I decided to just get it done so the bow got a good coat of ebony stain. I really like ebony stain on hickory because some times it can be a little on the uneventful side and the dark stain really makes the grain pop on it. it gives the boo and antique look  

So here it is at rest after a hundred or so shot through it. It did settle in about 3/4" less reflex than was glued in, i am blaming my poor tilling as the main culprit, because I could not have asked for a better piece of hickory or boo.  

and finally the full draw reveal, I was going to go in and put on a robe and house shoes to look professional, but since I had spent the last hour and a half weed eating I decided my dirty clothes would have to do.      

[Living_waters]

So my thoughts on the bow and the design. The final tiler really stinks,that over worked outer limb really plagued me and it even shows in this picture. After the final sanding it comes right back, tip travel is a 1/4" positive but clearly the lower limb is weaker. All in all it does shoot really good for its lower than wanted poundage ( 41# @ 28") Just like Jim baker states in TBB3 the limbs are thinner and have half the mass as a 45# self bow of similar design. I haven't shot it through a chrono yet but from side by side comparison it is visibly faster than a 45# straight bow and has no real noticeable difference with my 59# hunting bow.
The draw of this bow is where it differs from Jim Bakers description. The bow has considerable preload at brace and is smooth to a point, then the F/D curve takes a steep climb making 10# in the last few inches of the draw.

Overall I like this design and I think with a better knowledge of how to begin tillering and may be a shorter handle area this could be my favorite backed design. One thing that has me leaning this way is the cast. I had placed a target out at 20 yrds and shot many shots at it, but at the edge of my property is a backstop target with a burlap deer on it with a paper plate sized kill zone. 3 arrows with 3 placed in this target the first time I shot at it. 40 yards is at the edge of my proficiency, so with a 3 arrow group right out of the box that is a good selling point.
Now my only problem is whether to do a hickory osage in this design or another bamboo hickory and try for a 50+ pound screamer.

[Art B]

A couple observations LW. Tillering string is way to long. You want it just barely long enough to get on the nocks. On the long string, you'll have the inner third of your limbs show the greater bend, outer limbs you would want to show slightly stiffer than you would want. Because the greater strain is going to shift from inner to outer limb when you go to a regular string.

Your drawn profile would've been fine for a retangular limb profile. But since you side tapered, and belly tapered, you added additional limb taper which moved the greater been outward.

Reflexing right out of the handle requires less limb taper. That alone forces the greater bend outward.

All in all, you just gave your limbs too much taper.

Positive tiller is measured right outside the fades. If I read you correct, you said you're using tip movement as a gauge. That would cause your lower limb to show weak every time.......Art

[vanillabear?]

[PEARL DRUMS]

I love the ebony stain on hickory as well. I lightly stain the bow ebony then sand it back off and stain it some type of brown stain. It looks super cool with the ebony streaks in the grain. Nice looking bow LW.

[Living_waters]

Originally posted by Art B:
A couple observations LW. Tillering string is way to long. You want it just barely long enough to get on the nocks. On the long string, you'll have the inner third of your limbs show the greater bend, outer limbs you would want to show slightly stiffer than you would want. Because the greater strain is going to shift from inner to outer limb when you go to a regular string.

This was my greatest revelation on this build, I have had that same string for quite some time and just now realized it has been the one thing that has spawned several fits of rage ( cooly concealed of course      ) I fed it to my shop vac last night while cleaning up, i will let it deal with it.

 

Originally posted by Art B:
Your drawn profile would've been fine for a retangular limb profile. But since you side tapered, and belly tapered, you added additional limb taper which moved the greater been outward.

Reflexing right out of the handle requires less limb taper. That alone forces the greater bend outward.

All in all, you just gave your limbs too much taper.

Your opinion, would a pyramid design be better and only taper from the sides? I have been contemplating that for my next build.

 

Originally posted by Art B:
Positive tiller is measured right outside the fades. If I read you correct, you said you're using tip movement as a gauge. That would cause your lower limb to show weak every time.......Art

Here is something that I have been mis informed on, I believe it was on here some time back some one should a full draw on a graphed background and should measuring tip travel on the tree.

Thanks for the information, it is hard to learn unless you put it out there and have it judged.

[Living_waters]

Originally posted by vanillabear?:
Very nice of you to take the time to post all the pics of the process. It looks like it turned out pretty good to me and if it shoots good, then I'd call it a great success. I have not ever used a bottle to burnish any of my bows, but I might have to give that a try sometime...the wood sure looks shiny afterwards. That unstrung profile looks like it ought to really spit 'em out.

I have been doing it for a while and like the result. When I turn a duck or goose call I burnish it with brown paper this works good on a bow also. Want a real head turner, after 4 coats of poly wet sand it with an ulta fine and then polish with Meguiar's cleaner wax.... Just dont expect to kill anything with it LOL

Like I said, the design done what was claimed, for the light weight it really has a good cast

[Living_waters]

Originally posted by PEARL DRUMS:
I love the ebony stain on hickory as well. I lightly stain the bow ebony then sand it back off and stain it some type of brown stain. It looks super cool with the ebony streaks in the grain. Nice looking bow LW.

Now you got it, try staining ebony and sanding it then adding another coat the grain really is highlighted. One of these days I am going to do a maroon over the ebony. I have seen it done on a piece of furniture and it was awesome.

Thanks

[Lee Slikkers]

Originally posted by Living_waters:

Now my only problem is whether to do a hickory osage in this design or another bamboo hickory and try for a 50+ pound screamer.

Problem?

Heck, build em both!    

[Living_waters]

man I love good solid advice...Both it is! Let turkey season get over and we have direction, as long as the the guys in the padded van don't show up and haul me off to rehab.  

[Lee Slikkers]

Nope, no rehab...no interventions...

I have the same addiction my friend.  I had my 1st bow fracture a limb on me last night (was a Trade Bow for a guy on PA) unfortunately bugs had gotten to core before I did    

[Knawbone]

Im with ya LW, that tillering learning curve can be fustrating.I bet your next bow will be even nicer than the job you did on this one.Thanks for all the work you put into this build along.I learn from each and every one of them.  

[StoneAK]

I like it. just like vanilla bear said if it shoots good and you like it then it is a success. I enjoyed the build along. Great job and God Bless

[Living_waters]

Thanks guys
I hope I make it this next week, leaving early in the morning and won't be back till the middle of next week. I packed nothing bigger than a small pocket knife, that way I wont be tempted to cut down a tree and make a bow. I will just keep my mind on finding that ol tom.

[Art B]

LW, I was going to suggest that you just side taper your next bow. If you get your taper just right, all you have to do is scrape the limbs from fade to tips (or in my case, from tip to fades) to reduce weight and set tiller.

But even if you do need a little more limb taper, this will be done about mid-limb. Weight comes off much slower here than near fades with less of a chance of coming in under weight.

It's when we have to "reduce" limb taper is when we get in trouble at times. This reduction starts near fades, which is where the bow's weight will come off the quickest.

As you can see, there's more of an advantage with starting with less limb taper than having to much......Art