Follow along on a flawed perry relex trilam

[Living_waters]

Ok in another thread I revealed that I pulled a boner and scorched a spot on a limb of this bow. As we get advice on what our next action will be, I will let you follow along and see how it turns out.

Here is what took place Pryor to my malfunction.

I started with with a live oak plain sawn backing of just under 1/8th inch. If you are not familiar with live oak or never had the privilege using it, it is a wonderful bow wood. This board is probably the densest wood I have in my supply. It will challenge my osage and is most defiantly heavier than my mulberry. Here is a pic of a piece of red oak backing and the piece of live oak I used, notice the tighter grain pattern in the live oak on the bottom.
   

I was shooting for a .490 stack. Backing is just under 1/8 inch live oak, belly is 1/16th ERC and core is a parallel pre-tillered pre tapered stock with a full 1Inch thick handle area, rest of the handle is maple with a walnut accent.

Measurements are 70 inches tip to tip, none working handle 10 inches fade to fade. 1 1/2 inches wide, tapering from 1 inch past fade down to 1/2 inch at the tips. Belly lames run up taper to handle.
I glued the handle on before I stacked the lames, also I choose not to put the tip overlays on until bow was out of oven, usually I do it all at once but that sometimes makes the possibility of misalignment greater. Or should I say for me to misaligned something.
   

Wrapped and ready for for the oven. I used the same form I just made a boo backed hickory on. It is a 2 3/4 reflex at the tips.
   

6 hrs at 165 degrees and 4 hrs cool down at room temp. I changed one of the lights to increase the temp and as I have posted in the other thread I ended up with a scorched spot directly under the light on the back.
   

Here is a look at the ERC belly, ERC stinks in tension but is decent in compression, and I really like the look and wanted to try it on a belly    
     

So here we are waiting for some direction. Tomorrow I will make a string for it after church, being pre-tillered it should be able to go straight to a low brace, just bending on the floor it looks to have plenty bend already. Here is a picture  after everything was sanded showing the reflexed profile.

Until tomorrow

[StoneAK]

Can I see some up close pics of the form you used it looks interesting

[Living_waters]

I will get some in the morning, pretty simple form.
here is the missing link to the pic showing how much backset or reflex it puts into it.
   

[StoneAK]

Its simple but efficient I like it

[Aznboi3644]

1/16" belly lam seems like its gonna chrysal hard.

[Living_waters]

OK not much of a fallow along. Got home from church and made a string, I actually made it a little long with the intention of taking a low brace to start and then be able to shorten it after I get some draw length to it. WELLLL I have a problem, that normally would not be a problem. Here I will show ya. This is draw at 14inches after exercise:
   

And here it is at 24 inches:
     

I actually pulled it 26 inches with out any tillering. Looks like limb that was scorched is fine but the other is a little stiff mid limb. If my hand scales are right it is light. So I am waiting to final tiller it until I can get the weight correctly measured, stack came out .497 it is hard to imagine it is light and not heavy.

[Living_waters]

Here it is immediately after it is unstrung:
   

It retains just at 2inches of its reflex and relaxes back to almost a full 2 3/4. That is better than the boo backed hickory turned out.

StoneAK it is simple, efficient and versatile. by changing the blocks you can not only change the reflex but even the design. It was originally set up for a R/D, and I think I got it from one of Foresttrekers build alongs.
   

For a perry reflex I just band it down in the center.    

For an r/d you would band it out toward the tips where ever your design calls for. By banding the stack you have plenty of clamping pressure and can manipulate the form how ever you want.

[Living_waters]

well the scales were right, it is ten under anything acceptable. Any suggestions on increasing weight? Should have went wider at the fades.
Another belly lam of ERC?
shortening limbs?
another backing?
or combinations?

[rainman]

All four methods will work.  What is your draw length?  I would shorten 2 inches as my first option.

[Living_waters]

That is what I just did, my draw length is just under 27. I have actually shortened it 2 times. The first time I only gained about 5lbs by taking an inch off of both limbs. So I took another 3/4 off one limb making it asymmetrical, making the shelf center of the bow. This gave me 11 lbs putting it at 46lb at 28". I was unsure about the effects on the ERC if I added to the compression ratio.  One problem with shortening it was that I lost some reflex, didnt know what kind of trade off I would get into increasing draw weight but loosing reflex. I made it long to see what kind of compression the ERC would take as a belly lam since I could find no reference of it being used unless under glass. So far it seems good.

Shot it some yesterday but it was raining cats and dogs and the handle was not shape yet.

Any body got info on what kind of trade off there is with reflex reduction and draw weight increase?

[SEMO_HUNTER]

I have no idea Jeff, but I did the same thing with my BBO before I put the snake skins on. The bottom limb was about an inch longer than it needed to be and my handle/riser section was already completed so in order to get my arrow shelf cut out closer to 1" above center I trimmed an inch off the bottom limb. It increase my weight by a couple pounds, effectively gave me a positive tiller (which is good) and put my arrow about 1" above actual center. It made a world of difference in how much nicer the arrow left the bow and even feels more balanced. It did take some of the reflex away from my tip on the bottom limb, but the bow actually got faster......noticeably faster. I don't know if it was the increase in poundage or just that the arrow is coming out like a dart now and not porpoising?? All I know is that I took a chance and rolled a 7 this time. In other words I just got lucky in making the right decision.

[rainman]

The reflex you guys are losing is out on the tips where the bow was glued up.  The belly close in to the handle has the same reflex it just does'nt seem like it because those tips are gone.  Not sure how the Erc will hold up with a heavy wood like Live Oak for a backing, you are the first I have heard try this with Live Oak.  I made a Hickory backed Erc belly many years ago. Shot great for an hour then blew at both fades.  Bow was extremely short for Erc 63".  Next one try to use the Heartwood for the belly, stronger than sapwood much like Yew.

[Living_waters]

rainman I just couldn't stand not trying the ERC. The lam is thin so if it does fail it should not be devastating. But I shot several hundred arrows through it today and checked the belly before I put a coat of finish on it.

Semo I been reading alot about  asymmetrical limbs. This is the first one I shot, and I do say it is a pleasure to shoot. Had some friends over for my daughters 21st birthday tonight and was demonstrating the new bow for a buddy and put 4 arrows in a group touching each other, nocked a nock off of one..... Yes I quit before I slung one wild and had to admit  didn't shoot like that all the time LOL
I am really liking the perry reflex, I need to chrono and see what they are shooting, snappy for a light bow.

[Living_waters]

Ok don't need a chrono need a coroner. She bit the dust with out warning, was fine tuning and putting the final touch on what was a sweet shooting bow. Here is the carnage:
   

Now I need some one to tell me what went wrong. final numbers were 65NTN 10 inch non working handle area and 1 1/2 wide at fades tapering to 1/2 at the tips.
   
   

The picture here is not that good but there is some discoloration of the core from the scorched spot towards the handle.
     

By the peeling of the be belly I assume it was not the cause, it didnt delaminate, SOOOO  what happened. Did the back break or did something in the core cause it, OOOOOR was it a combonation?