A little tiller help please

[k-hat]

This is my first time to tiller a bow that is already reflexed, so i'm being overcautious I'm sure.  It's a 68 inch hickory bow based on "the perfect bow" in TBB1.  I heat-gunned in about 1.25 inches of reflex after floor tiller and it's been sitting just over a week (been real humid here!).  First pic is at rest, the second and third are at about 30 lbs. I'm aiming for 50 so it'll settle in at about 40-45 after done and shot in.
I'm thinking the limb on the left is a little stiffer, but is it too soon to start removing wood?    

 

Hope you don't mind tilting your head, or your screen   :D

 

 

Thanks guys!

[Pat B]

I think you need to get her bending a bit more to see how she is actually bending. Stay away fron the near handle area and remove wood in long strokes from the rest of each limb. Take about 20 strokes of the scraper on each limb, exercise the limbs 20 to 30 pulls and see where she is then. At this point you still have plenty of "meat" to work with.

[k-hat]

Thanks Pat, i was hoping you'd chime in!  that's what i was thinking, but i just wanted to be sure before proceeding.  As said, i'm a little nervous because of the already reflexed limbs.  I usually reflex later in the process.  Thanks again, I'll repost later in the process.

[Pat B]

Slow and steady wins the race!!!

[k-hat]

AAAAAAARGH!!       Should i have seen this coming??  Looked like i had good bend going on, one limb slightly stronger, which was planned for the bottom.  Should I have tillered farther out before stringing?  Here are most recent pics:  

Long string just before bracing (come to think of it, i went an additional 2 inches of limb travel for a total of 10" after this pic, but didn't take another pic, bend was same):
 

Ouch, braced   :(  
 

Any input would be immensely appreciated!  Thanks in advance    

[George Tsoukalas]

Sure doesn't look like that long string picture should give that brace look. Did you remove more wood before bracing. I wish we could have seen the 10" shot. Try to match the way the limbs bend. The right limb is whip tillered. Remove wood out to mid limb. Left limb needs removal mid limb on. Exercise 20 times at very short pulls. Do not draw this bow at all until you fix the brace look and then only a few inches to test the curvature. My site.  Jawge
 http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/

[Roy from Pa]

This is exactly why I quit using that extra long tillering string with the leather cups on the ends. I have had bows look great with it on, only to get what you just got when going to a regular string. Now from the start I cut in my string nocks and use a regular string. I use a string that is a little longer so that when I first brace the bow for the tree, the string lays tight flat againist the belly side of the handle.

[John Scifres]

Don't panic.  Just remember, take wood off where it isn't bending enough and leave it a lone where it is bending too much.  You'll be fine.

Work that left limb until it is even with the right.  That hingy spot won't look as severe then.  Then I bet you'll have to work the inner third on the right limb and it'll come around.

The long string pic looks like you have your string hook too far to the left.  That might be distorting it some.  The angle doesn't help either.  Get a tripod or use a ladder and use a timer on your camera.  Set it so the camera is looking straight at the tree.

[George Tsoukalas]

10 in of limb travel is a lot. I didn't notice that.  A tillered and strung bow doesn't move much more than 3 inches at the tips. I long string tiller out to 10 inches of string movement looking for target weight. Then I string it. That outs 10# over the weight I want. So at my first stringing for a 50# bow it would be 60#. There is a difference between limb movement and string travel. That 10 of string travel brings me to around brace height. I use a long string that is 1.5 times or so the length of the stave. Jawge

[k-hat]

George, Roy, John, thanks for the input, ya'll are awesome.  I was hoping i hadn't just turned this thing into a kid bow, looks like it'll still be fine.  I'll follow your tillering advice and work on it some more tonite.  It's 67 inches ntn, and i have a 68 inch b-50 i'll twist up and try instead of the stringer once i start bending her again. (that's a 64 inch string in the above brace pic).  I'm DEFINITELY ditching the leather cup stringer for the long string!  I just learnt to "do the twist" and plan on making some strings for tillering in the future.  

the string hook was actually scooting left on it's own, i assumed from the stiffer left limb from some of the posts i've read here.  the funny thing is, i hadn't removed any wood from the right limb, it was bending nicely (so i thought), kept removing from left limb (must've done a 150 or so scrapes over all), and it's still too stiff.  I'm guessing i somehow heated that one more than the other, who knows.

The good news is when i unstrung her she went back to reflexed profile at the top after about a half hour, and i pulled back down with that cursed long string just to see (all last nite before i had any replies) and got the same bend as in the pre-brace pic.  Go hickory.

thanks again guys for all your help, i'll be posting updates as i progress to (hopefully!) a beautifully bent stick!

[k-hat]

George, not sure i follow you on the 3" limb travel.  How is that measured?  Seems like in any braced bow I've seen (and made), the tips are well more than 3" from a flat profile?  I'm sure I'm misunderstanding, and maybe mis-using vocabulary.  Please edjucate me sir    

My long string was within the 1.5x (72")length, and my strategy was to get the tips to the brace height and 64 inches from each other, which is the length of the string i was gonna put on.  guess i didn't figure in the difference in string angle.  Won't make that mistake again.  

So am i understanding correctly, to prevent this problem in the future, use a shorter long string that will "just fit" to the nocks, then brace it with the short string when i get to 10" of string travel (i do know what that is     )

Many thanks again!

[Bowjunkie]

Yes, a shorter 'long string' that will just fit to the tips.

It looks in your previous pictures that the bottom limb was weak. Perhaps that could have been corrected before bracing it?

I love my long tillering string, and try to keep it roughly the same length as the bow. I use it instead of floor tillering, and only to gauge the earliest bends and relative limb strengths. I know that a proper length string will make the outer limbs look a little weaker and so I leave them 'stiff-looking' while I'm using a long string. I keep faith that the diligent care I take to maintain good limb thickness tapering will give me what I want once I put a shorter string on it.

I put the long string away once I'm happy with the limb movement relative to one another and once the limb tips are moving about 6-7". Then I cut the nocks in and go to the lowest brace height possible... string just off the handle. Tiller to 9-10" of total limb tip movement, then put a proper length string on it and go from there.

[George Tsoukalas]

k-hat,
I was just commenting that with the long string 10 in of tip travel is an awful lot. If you draw a tillered and completed bow the tips move at best 3 inches. I long string tiller out to 10 in of string travel. That is I stretch the string, mark it, measure, measure 10 in, mark it and that is my goal for the long string tillering. Jawge

[George Tsoukalas]

I use a string that is 1.5 times the stave length or just about that. I also try to get good limb movement and target weight at that 10 in. I set this method for a 26 in draw and the long string length as specified. You'd have to make a few changes if you vary string length and if your draw length is different. Jawge